Hi - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

NickCraggs · Guru

Hi

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Nick,

welcome to the forum.

What do people dislike about training providers... Normally that they charge a fortune to tell you which books you need to read and then you never hear from them again! (lol).

Personally I just buy the books and study that way as that works for me but as I've written in other posts I appreciate that other may need a little more motivation from a training provider. I did do the OU B680 so experienced using a training provider before deciding that books were the way for me.

As training providers go I do like the approach of Premier Training as they're not at all pushy. They give sound advice for free on the best way forwards for you and then it's down to you whether or not you sign up with them.

At the opposit end of the spectrum HLC seems to go the other way at times seemingly employing double glazing sales techniques. You'll really get the feeling from reports on this site that such behaviour isn't at all well received.

On the materials front I like the Open university training materials for B680, Kaplan study texts for ACCA and the Osbourne books for AAT (I haven't done AAT but it doesn't stop me buying the books... Or CAT study texts, or CIMA texts... The list goes on!). In all instances the books that I like are where everything is driven home by regular practice and repetition built into steadily increasing complexity.

I've got to ask the obvious question. You say that you're running an accountancy practice but your only working towards the ICAEW qualification. How can you do that?

I'm ACCA PQ and no doubt you've read some of the anguish in recent posts about what you're not allowed to do as an ACCA student or for two years in practice after passing all of the exams. I always thought that ICAEW was even more restrictive but you are able to own an accountancy practice. Have I joined the wrong bunch with the ACCA as my intention was always to crossover to ICAEW under the dual membership once ACCA allowed me to practice. If it's a case that I could just go out and buy a practice now I think that I might have joined the wrong bunch!

Cheers in advance for any advice on that one and good luck with your ICAEW exams (Bet Attila's got lots of questions for you on that as well as he's gone down the ICAEW path).

Talk soon,

kind regards,

Shaun.

NickCraggs · Guru

Hi Shamus,

I was reading your other post about the ACCA and their rules, which seem somewhat draconian. The ICAEW seem fairly reasonable about this:

"It is possible to engage in public practice as a provisional member (student) of ICAEW if you are an AAT member and authorised by the AAT and also by your QPRT (qualified person responsible for training) to do this."

http://www.icaew.com/en/join-us/members-of-other-bodies/aat-members-join-icaew

I just needed my training manager to agree to it. I joined my current firm from being self employed, and they did not mind me keeping a few clients outside of work, as long as it doesn't affect my work for them. It also helps that we are aiming at different ends of the market!

I am aware there will be few accountants willing to take students on, who are actively incompetition with them, and you can not complete your ICAEW without being on a training contract with an approved firm. So i don't think this option will be available to everyone.

Nick

sally-anne · Veteran Member

Hi Shamus

Some interesting reading here about training providers materials, regarding open university B680 is this a beginners course? My experience of training provider materials are, HLC's are full of mistakes and clearly of no use to anybody, Kaplan I always think are good but sometimes their books seem to have been written by an accountant and not written in layman terms for students. I have found Training Link's manuals very good which are for the ICB qualifcation and some of my friends rate Osbournes very good regarding AAT.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Sally,

I'll answer your post first as I'm finding Nicks comments about the ICAEW really interesting and want to spend a bit more time thinking about my reply for that one.

B680 was the Open University certificate in accounting (now replaced by a slightly cut down version as the old one had got way too expensive (I'm pretty sure that it had breached £2500 when they canned it).

B680 started with basic bookkeeping and then built on that through financial accountancy, management accountancy and accounting theory all in the space of 52 weeks. Needless to say it really pushed you and I found that I was spending upwards of 40 hours per week on it where the website said that it should take about 15 hours per week... Or maybe I'm just a bit slower than I should be!

I actually took my ACCA fundamentals level papers (MSER route) to coincide with the Open University exams so cross studied using the OU materials and BPP study texts for the old papers 1.1 and 1.2. resulting in good marks from both bodies.

I will say that the BPP study texts used to be second to non and I still refer to those one's now. However, since the 2002 texts BPP have changed their format twice. The first time was really just cosmetic but the second made them seem much more cluttered compared to the Kaplan texts (a bit like comparing Excel 2003 against the much prettier but less useful 2007) so my collection of study texts starts green and then goes slowly sky blue as it works towards the advanced papers.

I don't think that I've ever met anyone with a bad word to say about the Osbourne texts and certainly as a publisher they are fantastic. We had an issue on this site last year where there was confussion over a small quote in one of the books. I wrote to the publishers and got a message back from them within the hour and from the author within a day.... Try that one with Kaplan or BPP!

I always find that the best way to find the accountancy texts that suit you is to go and sit cross legged in the accountancy department of Foyles bookshop for an hour and go through all of the options. On that basis I'm sad to say though that I've actually dropped books off my to buy list just because they use sub standard paper!

Your not the first one to say good things on here about Training Link so looks as though you made a good call there. The training provers of choice on here are definitely coming down to Premier Training, Training Link and Ideal schools.

Oh, almost forgot. The Open University accountancy beginners course is B190 but I think that you are already well beyond that one.

Talk later,

Shaun.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Cheers for that Nick.

I've just been through the ICAEW page that you pointed me to and also :

http://www.careers.icaew.com/school-students-leavers/Entry-routes/AAT-ACA-Fast-Track/How-AAT-ACA-Fast-Track-works

and

http://www.icaew.com/en/qualifications-and-programmes/aca/aca-employers/employer-roles-and-responsibilities/qualified-person-responsible-for-training

There's definitely potential here as my already being a company director and also knowing several full ICAEW members does seem to offer opportunities in relation to the QPRT requirement (I'll have to study the small print on that one).

Beginning now to wish that I had gone down the AAT rather than ACCA routes right from the get go as it sounds as though I could have already had my own practice and been working towards chartered status by now.

At the time my decision to go the route that I did was based on the facts that the ACCA experience could be gained after qualification whereas ICAEW demanded (at the time) that you had a training contract in place before you could sign up with them. Also with the ACCA banking experience at the level I work used to count towards the membership requirements (although never the two years post qualification experience required to get a practice certificate)

Oh well, too late now and one can't live their life by what if's.

Many thanks for the heads up on this. Bit more reading and thinking for me to do although suspect that there will be some wapping great barrier that stops me from progressing it any further.

All the best,

Shaun.

sally-anne · Veteran Member

Hi Shaun

Thank you for your detailed information most grateful for your reply. After I have completed my ICB qualifications, I am really interested in Business Finance I noticed on Training Link Website they offer a NCFE LEVEL 2 qualification in this subject, have you ever heard of this is this a good qualifcation to take or is they another route to take? I like yourself have spent many an hour in book shops looking at accountancy books, and my collection is taking over the house now lol. Kind Regards.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Sally,

with the weight of Accountancy texts all that I can say is thank goodness for Ikea and Billy bookcases! I'm now up to eight of them. Bottom two shelves of each are magazine files stuffed with old exam papers and accountancy articles. The rest are study texts and accountancy books. Looking around I think that I've now ammassed enough to give Foyles accountancy department a real run for their money!

To be honest the NCFE course doesn't ring any bells with me.

Have you thought about AAT or ATT as your next step after ICB.

ATT could really compliment your ICB studies and could be used to open employment doors and possible progress towards CTA. The thing about ATT is that when people think about accountants they think tax even though that's only part of the whole package. Going down that route you become exactly what the public want. A tax expert.

If ATT isn't for you then AAT is recognised everywhere. It's not really any better than CAT it's just that more employers know that one more than the ACCA CAT offering. Your ICB will get you exemptions from the level I AAT and possibly level II (I'm thinking here of you doing the AAT skillscheck on the back of your ICB studies rather than exemptions based on your ICB membership which I'm not sure what exemptions that gives from AAT).

Actually, whilst we're talking qualifications I came accross this thread over on accounting web (where I lurk but don't post) related to people who become members of the Institute of Financial Accountants. It really covers a lot of ground in relation to the various different bodies :

http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/item/45307

Have fun and talk soon,

Shaun.

Amanda · Expert

HI Shaun,

Where do you keep all your bookcases full of accountancy books??? Have you a couple of spare rooms! lol.

I am running out of space in my office /spare bedroom, need to expand!

cheers

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Amanda,

short answer, yes...

There's just two of us rattling around a four bed house so two of the bedrooms are offices.

Unfortunately it doesn't stop the rooms filling up on quite a regular basis and despite having a huge five by three desk my main work surface is still the floor espechially when sorting out receipts and invoices and bank statements.

Talk later,

Shaun.

nashir · Newbie

Hi Nick, welcome to your job.