Going Self Employed - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

whiskerspanther · Member

Going Self Employed

Kynan · Member

Hi,

I take it that as an associate you have passed level 2?

If this is the case, as I understand it, you can take on sole traders and use the ICB crest on your advertising etc and be covered by them under MLR.

After level 3, you will be able to do limited companies.

Whether you opt for manual or computerised levels will determine what the ICB will cover you to practice.

Kynan

-- Edited by Kynan at 16:10, 2009-03-04

Rickster · Member

Hello

Are you saying that although you qualify under manual bookkeeping and as a result supposed to meet the standards. You will not be covered if you use computerised systems in practice unless you take computerised course also?!

Cheers

Julie · Senior Member

Hi,

Yes, that`s correct - Like all insurances they are looking to reduce the possibility of a claim and the more stringent the policy, the less chance of you being able to claim if things go wrong.

So, if you are only qualified to provide manual bookkeeping, then thats what you are covered to do, if you do computerised and an issue/problem arises where a claim is brought against you, well.... you are not covered.

Rickster · Member

Hi Julie

Thank you for the reply and confirming that. I do understand what your saying and the more stringent the policy the less chance of a claim. Although it maybe just me but I do feel its a bit of a rip off and cash generating exercise??.

I totally agree with the training course being available though for anyone wishing to do it. And is a great idea and you can never have enough trainingHowever is not a balance sheet and P&L the same whether you are writing it up or typing it up as you definitley are supposed to know your way around a set of books if your qualified whether it be Manual or Computerised? And as a result will know what your expecting to see and produce? If a person is very I.T literate and can learn the software in their own time/(and budget for some people) then forcing this is a little unfair given they are experienced and already qualified?

On the flip side for the people working for themselves who are not very IT literate then its unlikely to put risk their lively hood on something they dont know how to use and so would continue using any existing processes to produce your client books each month etc? ie would not use it anyway. (But again emphasis these are qualified people too and know their accounts)

So for arguement sake if I was ACCA qualified and wanted to join the ICB also. To be covered would I also need to take a computersied bookkeeping course?

I am only curious and appreciate that despite my view on it that is just how it is and will stay !!! Honestly I not being aurgumentative :)

Thanks
Rick

Silly Digits · Senior Member

I recently contacted the ICB as I found out that I wasn't covered to do computerised book-keeping with the ICB, although I had passed with a disdinction level 3 with IAB. Anyway, I done the exam and passed but I have just noticed that on the original question there was a query that you had to complete Level 3 before you were covered to do limited companies. Can anybody confirm this. If so I have probably wasted my time in doing level 2.

Thanks

Julie · Senior Member

Hi Rick,

I dont think you are being argumentative at all - I agree with what you are saying.

I have come across a couple of clients who have previously used a `bookkeeper` who has clearly not had a clue and left their books in a mess. Now, I dont mind coming in after the event and sorting it out, but I do mind the fact that some people who call themselves `bookkeepers`, think that there is some easy money to be made, then when they realise a lot of hard work is required, simply walk away. This makes it harder for the rest of us, be it qualified through exams and or experience (from experience I mean a minimum of a year or two of practical knowledge) to gain work, particuarly from sole traders, as they are more likely to use a bookkeeper rather have one on the payroll.

Now, I dont want to go upsetting any bookkeepers out there, this is just what I have come across myself.

I do think it is important to know your stuff and the vast majority of clients really are not bothered what qualifications you have, they want a good , value for money service from a bookkeeper who knows their way around their (clients) books., be them manual or computerised. They want to feel confident in you.

The veiw of say, ICB, IAB, AAT and others would be that they want all their members to abide by their rules of engagement, and it may seem like a `cash generating exercise` but if we want the benefit of using their name / association in the line of promoting our services, then thats the price we pay.

So I surpose the moral of the tale is, choose your association carefully, look into their terms and conditions and make your mind up which `gang` you want to join, it any !

On your question about ACCA and ICB computerised course, you would need to ask ICB the question. I think that if you have computerised experience / qualification you would need to have a qualified accountant to verify your status to gain exemption from ICB exam.

Julie

Rickster · Member

Hi Julie

Thanks and I do appreciate what you have said and know what you mean. I was just curious whether it was just me thinking this.

The more training available the better and can never be a bad thing. However I was just a little surprised at the 'requirement' for already qualified/experienced bookkeepers.

As you said thats just how it is and the price you pay for being associated and being able to promote. -

Cheers
Rick

whiskerspanther · Member

Hi

You are absolutely correct. In order to work for Ltd companies you have to pass level 3 first. I have level I Manual and Level II computerised and was told by the ICB I can only provide services for Sole Traders and Small Partnerships.

Rickster · Member

Hi Whisk

I agree with the extra training regarding Ltd company accounts and can understand why the ICB would require this if they are allowing the use of their name.

The point I was making was if you are still doing sole trader accounts (unincorporated business) but had passed the manual bookkeeping LvL II and are using a computerised system you will not be covered/backed by the ICB unless you have done their computer variant course also.

To me a Balance sheet/P&L or I&E report is the same whether it's written or typed. You still need to know and make sense of any numbers produced. And as for the course being laballed 'computerised bookkeeping' and charging few hundred quid. It still wont help to the degree that there are numerous packages on the market and wont train you to use those packages which you will need to learn yourself anyway.

So personally to enforce the 'computer' variant course on already qualifieds is a little bit cheeky.

So to summarise the principles of accounting are the same whether on paper or screen. So unless they are teaching you specifics on software I cant see where the value added comes from on this course for already qualifieds in respect of 'bookkeeping'. BUT I can see the benefit as being a 'general' computer literacy course.

However SAGE bookkeeping course I can see as value added if you use SAGE for example or any other software specific course.

It just puzzles me why someone who know manual bookkeeping (which is hands on) and is qualified then has to do another course teaching him or her what they already know (Bookkeeping wise) but with a 'general' I.T spin and charge several hundred quid.

I know some people will disagree with me but thats just my view...

:)

Cheers
Rick

Silly Digits · Senior Member

If I had known that I would of done the Level 3 exam and not the level 2 as advised by ICB. Bit annoyed that ICB did not tell me this when I enquired.

Looks like a wasted £30

Alison · Senior Member

Silly Digits wrote:

If I had known that I would of done the Level 3 exam and not the level 2 as advised by ICB. Bit annoyed that ICB did not tell me this when I enquired.

Looks like a wasted £30

You would have only been able to do the level 3 exam if you had paid for exemption from level 2 which also would have meant having a chartered accountant sign some form for this. I was not allowed to even book for the level 3 computerised exam until the results of the level 2 were published because I wanted to do them in one go, ended up doing them with about 5 weeks apart from each other because of waiting for the results.

Alison

steve99.9 · Veteran Member

Perhaps I have got this wrong, and I stand to be corrected, but I thought that if you had completed Level 2 (comp) that you could do work for Limited companies but only up to trial balance, where you would then pass the work to an accountant for production of Final accounts ( P &L & BS) for filing at Companies house and HMRC. whereas with Sole Traders etc you can produce final accounts from which the client can submit his self assessment tax return

Steve

Silly Digits · Senior Member

Thankyou Alison & Steve99.9 for your replies. Think I will have to contact ICB for clarification as different comments given.

whiskerspanther · Member

That is interesting what you say Steve because my business advisor could not understand why I was unable to work for Ltd companies as she said I would be providing the same service!
If you find out from the ICB Silly please let us know.

Thanks

Silly Digits · Senior Member

Contacted ICB who inform me that with ICB Level II computerised qualification you can complete sole trader final accounts but you are only covered to do the day to day book-keeping for Limited companies, the book-keeping then should be passed to an accountant to do the final accounts. Hope this helps.

Spaulding · Member

Rick

I don't know what this course is that you're on about for a few hundred quid, but if you can do the manual stuff, why bother with a course for the computerised exam ?

All I did was take the Manual Level 1 exam, then brush up on Sage and take the Computerised Level 2 exam.

I was then qualified up to Level 2 Computerised for the price of the 2 exams, £60 or something.

You don't need a course for the computerised exam if you know the manual stuff mate.. not in my opinion anyway.