This may not be such an issue for us this year as we have considerably reduced our client base, but may be worth consideration by others as well.
For some clients we also undertake Payroll, book keeping, VAT and MGD with some of these delivering paper records to us monthly / quarterly.
A number of clients' businesses are correctly still working and will be seeking to deliver the paperwork to us shortly.
A larger number have closed down, but the last quarter's VAT or MGD returns will need completion and again will be seeking to deliver the appropriate paperwork to us shortly.
Whilst we have already advised clients that we will continue as normal with mail, email, telephone and video contact we will no longer have face to face meetings until further notice.
So for the clients that cannot pass over the paperwork electronically has anyone established if its permitted for working businesses to deliver paperwork to us, and if the clients who have temporarily ceased are also permitted to deliver their paperwork ?
There will be no face to face contact as the paperwork would be delivered by appointment and left in a controlled area opened by a remote locking system.
Despite researching I have been unable to establish if delivery of the paperwork would be considered "essential travel" before we agree to clients travelling to us.
I raise this as should clients not be permitted to travel to deliver paperwork etc, or not wish to do so in the current climate, then some VAT Returns etc may not be prepared and in the longer term when we get back to some normality it may prove impossible for some Accountants to undertake the years' SA work within a much shorter timeframe.
Thank you for such a prompt reply. We have suggested that option to those where is seemed appropriate.
We have had two replies from clients who have asked what would the difference be in taking the paperwork to the Post Office, against dropping them off to us.
Both suggested it may be safer to drop them off to us, with no personal contact, rather then queuing in a post office.
I think the issue is not the actual delivery, clients would be happy to deliver to us, but I have not agreed yet in case this may be deemed as "not essential" travel.
Hi Jay, the word "essential" in the context of travel is a red herring - I'm hearing a few people use it, but it is NOT what is being said. If the lockdown was to the extent that only "essential travel" is allowed, it would be enforced with (random) checks on people travelling, and you'd have to (self?) certify the nature of your travel by downloading a declaration form for signing (or something of that kind).
The word "essential" there only appears in the context of doctors' appointments and in the context of work - where it specifically says they are not saying that only people who do essential work can go to work. (And they even put the word essential in quotes to emphasise that this is a nonsense).
The important point is that people should work from home if they can, but may otherwise travel to work. And in the case of your clients, delivering the paperwork to you can easily be classed as work of a sort; it is work they must do as part of the administration of their business.
This could be avoided IF the decision on VAT included being able to hold off submitting VAT returns (in much the same way that there has been a three month extension for filing company accounts) - but according to the missive sent out by HMRC the other day, you can defer payment of VAT, but VAT returns must still be submitted as normal.
So travelling to you to deliver paperwork is absolutely fine (in terms of what's allowed, not necessarily in terms of whether you or your clients consider it a risk etc).
I have a slightly different problem, in that for one client I have lots of supplier invoices that get automagically forwarded to me by email, but not everything (some stuff comes to them in the post). I also have to pull the sales data for the quarter off of their computer.
They rang me to tell me they've shut the office because, due to the nature of their business, they have no work; there's no point them being there.
I'm therefore not going to be able to get any physical paperwork, or access their sales data - yet I'm still supposed to submit a VAT return in about a month's time. Ho hum.
__________________
Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
Thank you Vince for your comprehensive reply that has certainly put my mind at rest.
I wish you well in resolving your problem
I think I would put pressure on the client to provide as much information as possible and inform HMRC VAT in advance of filing the Return of the situation.
I would hope they would suggest doing the best you can, as VAT payments can be deferred this quarter anyway, and make the appropriate corrections next quarter assuming some normailatity returns.
Not ideal in any way but maybe worth consideration?
This has been an area I have also been considering. I have managed to get many of my clients to send things electronically or via the post but there are still many for whom a carrier bag need s to change hands.
Foolishly I already collect lots of my documents and many of my old school clients (read farmers) expect the same. Not easy now, while also trying to home school three children!
My plan in some part is to collect those which are within walking distance from a designated agreed safe place while on my daily exercise allowance (with three children and one mad spaniel also in tow)
The others I shall plan to co-ordinate on a weekly route to the local shop to combine shopping for essentials. I'm hoping this will work as police routinely stopping cars here due to being a popular area for people driving out to walk dogs/picnic.
It's not easy doing any work at the moment but I guess we are luckier than most in that we have a trade which can in fact mostly be carried out from home.
Good luck all and stay safe
Valerie
__________________
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Lots of folk are confusing certain aspects of the guidance and the new law.
You need to look at the link Vince posted plus also the newly enacted Law - www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6/made BEARING In mind the usual caveat - guidance is, well just that 'guidance' but the law is the final position.
Plus a few other links - that I have buried in a sea of open tabs.
But whilst payroll professionals are key workers .... Accountants and bookkeepers are not.
Guidance states that the government is not asking ANY businesses to close EXCEPT some non essential shops/venues (lists provided in the split down sectors, with exceptions to those specific sectors also listed - I posted this the other day) - lets face it they need business to carry on to keep the country moving and importantly raising taxes. BUT they want as many folk as possible to carry on this business from home so you should do so unless it is impossible to do so. Most of us can work from home, including doing the payroll (even if using desktop software such as Moneysoft)
We do not, therefore, carry out essential work. But we have reason for essential travel to work when collecting clients work, caveated as above.
Also bear in mind that clients all have statutory obligations, one of these for example is to file their VAT return on time. Even if they are deferring payment. So there is an argument for them delivering the paperwork to you comes under the relevant section of the legislation 6(h).
Problem we all may have is the way the police are interpreting matters in this fast moving environment. Lets face it the more we can stay at home, the better.
Dont forget to quarantine your paperwork. Sources are now saying 24 hours for paper, but Im taking no chances. Remember it is 72 for plastic - so get clients to lose the plastic sleeves.
Edited to correct a couple of typos only
-- Edited by Cheshire on Monday 30th of March 2020 11:05:59 PM
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Some excellent replies and essential reading above.
The one force that is being chastised over their disgraceful behaviour in this is Derbyshire Poice who have taken this lockdown as an excuse to implement a police state.
To paraphrase lord Sumption. The role of the Police is that of citizens in Uniform. They ae not members of a disciplined hierarchy operating just at the Governments command. They have no power to enforce ministers preferences, but only legal regulations that do not go anywhere near as far as the Governments guidance.
Derbyshire police are not just stopping people, they are destroying beauty spots to stop people wanting to travel to them. For example black dye poured into the blue lagoon at Buxton.
In short, Derbyshire police are acting beyond the law. Therefore illegally.
On another matter. For anyone who looks after small shops there is no ruling against them selling Easter eggs. Reports are that some officers are stating that the sale of Easter eggs are not essential supplies. It is not the part of the state to determine what lines the shops allowed to trade carry. Only whether such shops are deemed to provide an essential service. Any local government official be that council or police that attempts to restrict the sale of things such as Easter eggs is acting beyond their remit and quite frankly being petty in the extreme at a time when they should be concentrating upon far more serious matters.
It seems to me that in these times a lot of people have unfairly lost their jobs where a good many who should never have had a job in the first place remain in employment.
Shaun.
p.s. great reading all above for your contributions.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Some excellent replies and essential reading above.
The one force that is being chastised over their disgraceful behaviour in this is Derbyshire Poice who have taken this lockdown as an excuse to implement a police state.
To paraphrase lord Sumption. The role of the Police is that of citizens in Uniform. They ae not members of a disciplined hierarchy operating just at the Governments command. They have no power to enforce ministers preferences, but only legal regulations that do not go anywhere near as far as the Governments guidance.
Derbyshire police are not just stopping people, they are destroying beauty spots to stop people wanting to travel to them. For example black dye poured into the blue lagoon at Buxton.
In short, Derbyshire police are acting beyond the law. Therefore illegally.
On another matter. For anyone who looks after small shops there is no ruling against them selling Easter eggs. Reports are that some officers are stating that the sale of Easter eggs are not essential supplies. It is not the part of the state to determine what lines the shops allowed to trade carry. Only whether such shops are deemed to provide an essential service. Any local government official be that council or police that attempts to restrict the sale of things such as Easter eggs is acting beyond their remit and quite frankly being petty in the extreme at a time when they should be concentrating upon far more serious matters.
It seems to me that in these times a lot of people have unfairly lost their jobs where a good many who should never have had a job in the first place remain in employment.
Shaun.
p.s. great reading all above for your contributions.
Absolutely agree.
On the back of the ridiculousness at the beaches, Snowden etc the week before, but why is it wrong for 8 cars to be parked in a car park that holds 50, all separate, no-one in groups other than family members and all far far away from each other?
Only thing I would agree with this IF someone's car was in a poor state of repair. Until I did work for an MOT station I did not believe the amount of totally unroadworthy cars that are riding around the UK, positvely dangerous and put others lives at risk. Said garage takes no prisoners on failures (but maintains an excellent relationship with clients and indeed VOSA), but I cannot tell you the number of folk who still think they can drive a car with 'dangerous' failures to work etc between MOT failing, getting their repairs and re-testing. These folk are putting the lives of RAC etc at risk.......that is what the police should tackle whilst they are out checking for such folk.
Plus, small issue, but they are handing out leaflets - the leaflets carry the virus for 24 hours absoluet minimum.
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Ah, so that's what my wife she was on about. Came into the bedroom a tad upset. "You can't buy Easter Eggs now", she said, "Bloody ridiculous" Me, not being either fully awake or having heard the news said "If you're going to the shops to get something it's fine, if you're just going to the shops to buy Easter Eggs, fair enough" "No" she said "You can't buy Easter Eggs at all" I just said "In that case they'd have to take them off the shelves" Then said I thought she must have heard the news wrong.
__________________
John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Ah, so that's what my wife she was on about. Came into the bedroom a tad upset. "You can't buy Easter Eggs now", she said, "Bloody ridiculous" Me, not being either fully awake or having heard the news said "If you're going to the shops to get something it's fine, if you're just going to the shops to buy Easter Eggs, fair enough" "No" she said "You can't buy Easter Eggs at all" I just said "In that case they'd have to take them off the shelves" Then said I thought she must have heard the news wrong.
About the only items which hadnt flown off the shelves in two of my local supermarkets.
