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Post Info TOPIC: Thoughts on Year end Accounts


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Thoughts on Year end Accounts


Afternoon All

One of my customers "Ltd Company" would like me to take over preparing and submitting their year end accounts. Their accounts are fairly straight forward and do not need auditing. I have my AAT level 4 qualification and would love to get my teeth stuck into accounting beyond TB, Is this something i should really consider prior to embarking on my ACCA studies.



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Hi Nikole,

I'm not clued up on AAT so can't help there unfortunately, but if you're studying ACCA (and for at least 2 years post qualification when you can apply for your practising certificate) under their rules you can't do any bookkeeping beyond TB. So even if you took on the year end accounts, you'd have to stop doing them as soon as you registered as a student member of the ACCA. Sorry it's not better news!

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Rachel19 wrote:

Hi Nikole,

I'm not clued up on AAT so can't help there unfortunately, but if you're studying ACCA (and for at least 2 years post qualification when you can apply for your practising certificate) under their rules you can't do any bookkeeping beyond TB. So even if you took on the year end accounts, you'd have to stop doing them as soon as you registered as a student member of the ACCA. Sorry it's not better news!


Oh no! That's definitely not what i wanted to here :/ So it could be 5 years plus before i could complete year end..



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Nikole wrote:
Rachel19 wrote:

Hi Nikole,

I'm not clued up on AAT so can't help there unfortunately, but if you're studying ACCA (and for at least 2 years post qualification when you can apply for your practising certificate) under their rules you can't do any bookkeeping beyond TB. So even if you took on the year end accounts, you'd have to stop doing them as soon as you registered as a student member of the ACCA. Sorry it's not better news!


Oh no! That's definitely not what i wanted to here :/ So it could be 5 years plus before i could complete year end..


Think I need to step in with a reality check here.

You need three years signed off experience which should be after registration with the ACCA but can be before, during or after taking the final exam. Thats in order to gain membership, not to get a practice certificate.

The experience requirement for membership is quite far reaching but there is some flexibility over the qualifications of the person doing the signing off. So, for example, an AAT or CIMA member may be able to sign an ACCA membership experience.

Practice certificate experience is seperate to membership experience. This is a further three years. Up to one year prior to being admitted to full membership (which may overlap with membership experience) can be counted but two years must be afterwards.

The ACCA is looking for evidence of 4620 hours signed off in a practice recognised as an ACCA training provider with the principle being an ACCA MIP, FCCA MIP or ACA MIP in order to get a practice certificate. Just to be clear. That 4620 hours is only the practice certificate apportionment and the experience is pawed over by ACCA with a fine toothcomb before being accepted.

Getting through the exams generally takes more than five years. Papers 1-3 are AAT level. papers 4-9 are a bit more complex but anyone who has achieved AAT should have no serious difficulty stepping up a gear.

Ther professional level papers (final 5 from 7... Think thats recently changed a little with the addition of the new scenario based paper) are another kettle of fish. some papers have as low as a 27% pass rate and it is not unusual to find people who have sat certain papers several times.

I wish you the very best but realisticlly I think that you should double your estimate to get to a practice certificate.

Once you do though you're in the gravy. Because the ACCA is so well considered they have an arrangement with one of the worlds top ten Uni's where you can take a masters in Accountancy (MSc.) at a reasonable additional cost and even without the practice certificate. That on it's own makes the effort worth it. By the time that you get your PC you should also be close to getting your Fellow status. All looks very impressive and you suddenly need wider business cards for all of your letters, lol.

Good luck in getting there. Its worth it in the end but the journey can be a serious pain in the backside and few make it all the way to the end... Be one of the few that do.

All the best,

Shaun.



__________________

Shaun

Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.



Master Book-keeper

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Hi Nicola
Congrats on biting the bullet to get that synoptic done, well done of passing level 4.

If you do decide not to go down the ACCA route, cos Shaun has scared the living day lights out of you (I'm sure he hasn't really!), don't forget you will need to extend membership and your licence to MAAT status. Whilst membership is a given, be careful with the licence part as without the experience of year end work they will not include it. (Chicken and egg as usual).

Also, don't forget to extend your PII, as its most likely only covering your for pure bookkeeping, especially if you took out the BKN insurance, although Arlington can source you Accountants insurance.



__________________

Joanne

Fallows Hall Ltd

Winner - Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 and 2017

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.



Senior Member

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Date:

Shamus wrote:
Nikole wrote:
Rachel19 wrote:

Hi Nikole,

I'm not clued up on AAT so can't help there unfortunately, but if you're studying ACCA (and for at least 2 years post qualification when you can apply for your practising certificate) under their rules you can't do any bookkeeping beyond TB. So even if you took on the year end accounts, you'd have to stop doing them as soon as you registered as a student member of the ACCA. Sorry it's not better news!


Oh no! That's definitely not what i wanted to here :/ So it could be 5 years plus before i could complete year end..


Think I need to step in with a reality check here.

You need three years signed off experience which should be after registration with the ACCA but can be before, during or after taking the final exam. Thats in order to gain membership, not to get a practice certificate.

The experience requirement for membership is quite far reaching but there is some flexibility over the qualifications of the person doing the signing off. So, for example, an AAT or CIMA member may be able to sign an ACCA membership experience.

Practice certificate experience is seperate to membership experience. This is a further three years. Up to one year prior to being admitted to full membership (which may overlap with membership experience) can be counted but two years must be afterwards.

The ACCA is looking for evidence of 4620 hours signed off in a practice recognised as an ACCA training provider with the principle being an ACCA MIP, FCCA MIP or ACA MIP in order to get a practice certificate. Just to be clear. That 4620 hours is only the practice certificate apportionment and the experience is pawed over by ACCA with a fine toothcomb before being accepted.

Getting through the exams generally takes more than five years. Papers 1-3 are AAT level. papers 4-9 are a bit more complex but anyone who has achieved AAT should have no serious difficulty stepping up a gear.

Ther professional level papers (final 5 from 7... Think thats recently changed a little with the addition of the new scenario based paper) are another kettle of fish. some papers have as low as a 27% pass rate and it is not unusual to find people who have sat certain papers several times.

I wish you the very best but realisticlly I think that you should double your estimate to get to a practice certificate.

Once you do though you're in the gravy. Because the ACCA is so well considered they have an arrangement with one of the worlds top ten Uni's where you can take a masters in Accountancy (MSc.) at a reasonable additional cost and even without the practice certificate. That on it's own makes the effort worth it. By the time that you get your PC you should also be close to getting your Fellow status. All looks very impressive and you suddenly need wider business cards for all of your letters, lol.

Good luck in getting there. Its worth it in the end but the journey can be a serious pain in the backside and few make it all the way to the end... Be one of the few that do.

All the best,

Shaun.

Morning Shaun

I never anticipated ACCA as being a walk in the park but you sure have put the frighteners up me.

How do i obtain three years signed off experience when i work for myself - I'm presuming now that i would need to work under the supervision of someone for three years plus. My ex employer is ACCA qualified but my employment there was over 4 years ago which is a shame. I know the exams are extremely hard to pass and i believe that i need to sit 10 of them which i know for sure i wont pass all of first time round.

You really have opened my eyes and put me off (no offence) The three years signed off experience / 4620 hours is a slight game changer for me.

Other than CIMA what other options are there available for me to further my knowledge.




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Cheshire wrote:

Hi Nicola
Congrats on biting the bullet to get that synoptic done, well done of passing level 4.

If you do decide not to go down the ACCA route, cos Shaun has scared the living day lights out of you (I'm sure he hasn't really!), don't forget you will need to extend membership and your licence to MAAT status. Whilst membership is a given, be careful with the licence part as without the experience of year end work they will not include it. (Chicken and egg as usual).

Also, don't forget to extend your PII, as its most likely only covering your for pure bookkeeping, especially if you took out the BKN insurance, although Arlington can source you Accountants insurance.


Morning Joanne

Shaun has certainly made me re think what i want to do in the future. Why is it so hard to better yourself especially when you are self employed. I'm rather put off ACCA now. It didn't cross my mind to renew my PII. Thank you for pointing that out. I'm with Arlington but might have a look at BKN too.

No more studying for now means i now have time to iron againdisbelief



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Hi Nicole

On my phone so not sure how this will turn out, but if you are looking at doing end of year accounts have you considered doing ATT which will certainly help with the tax side of things



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Doug

These are only my opinions of how I see things and therefore should not be taken as advice



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Artois wrote:

Hi Nicole

On my phone so not sure how this will turn out, but if you are looking at doing end of year accounts have you considered doing ATT which will certainly help with the tax side of things


Hi Doug,

I looked at ATT last night but thought as i had my AAT Level 4 behind me it wouldn't be enough. Am i wrong? I'm guessing now that it is more advanced than the tax levels of AAT.



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ATT is lot more involved and intense than the AAT tax units, AAT give a good introduction into the basics of both Personal and Business tax, but in my opinion it is just that the basics you only need to look at the study material for Business Tax with the AAT it is only 1 book (or it used to be) where as with the ATT you get 6 folders, so it is much more involved and also uses a lot more of the legislation.

It obviously depends on you and what you want to offer, the majority of my work is accounts and tax compliance work so this was the route I decided to take because I knew what services I wanted to offer.



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Doug

These are only my opinions of how I see things and therefore should not be taken as advice



Master Book-keeper

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Nikole wrote:
Cheshire wrote:

Hi Nicola
Congrats on biting the bullet to get that synoptic done, well done of passing level 4.

If you do decide not to go down the ACCA route, cos Shaun has scared the living day lights out of you (I'm sure he hasn't really!), don't forget you will need to extend membership and your licence to MAAT status. Whilst membership is a given, be careful with the licence part as without the experience of year end work they will not include it. (Chicken and egg as usual).

Also, don't forget to extend your PII, as its most likely only covering your for pure bookkeeping, especially if you took out the BKN insurance, although Arlington can source you Accountants insurance.


Morning Joanne

Shaun has certainly made me re think what i want to do in the future. Why is it so hard to better yourself especially when you are self employed. I'm rather put off ACCA now. It didn't cross my mind to renew my PII. Thank you for pointing that out. I'm with Arlington but might have a look at BKN too.

No more studying for now means i now have time to iron againdisbelief


Dont be put off if its something you really want and as Shaun said the payback when you do get it is HUGE!

Nothing good in life is achieved that easily. OK some things are, but the majority of really good things require a lot of effort.

Arlington provide the BKN cover, but the BKN cover via them only goes as far as bookkeeping.

Re Doug's comment re the ATT - most businesses will be asking a lot more questions about tax, plus the related Director's positions, than the AAT covers, albeit most folk manage pretty well with the AAT exams alone if they have other experience (eg working in practice and having seen the issues that crop up etc). Often what seems to be the most simple of tax positions can often be rather quite complex when you dig below the surface, or indeed as a company diversifies (oir decides they want to consider some daft or indeed sensible tax mitigation plan). But you should always be open to buying in that expertise anyway. Or passing it off to a tax advisor when you cannot do it yourself.



-- Edited by Cheshire on Wednesday 31st of July 2019 10:59:45 AM

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Joanne

Fallows Hall Ltd

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Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.



Master Book-keeper

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Yoh Doug - was wondering where you had gone just yesterday! Hope youre ok!

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Joanne

Fallows Hall Ltd

Winner - Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 and 2017

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.



Guru

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Cheshire wrote:

Yoh Doug - was wondering where you had gone just yesterday! Hope youre ok!


Hi Joanne, Im still here but also been enjoying the lovely weather, apart from yesterday of course but I did get to watch most of the rain looking through the pub windows



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Doug

These are only my opinions of how I see things and therefore should not be taken as advice



Master Book-keeper

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Ah, yesterday when Wales was hit by a million lightening strikes! (or some big number!). I was in sunny Colwyn Bay yesterday visiting an old pal. I say sunny - it was on the drive down and most of the drive back and about 50% of the time I was there, so cannot complain too much, especially as it was fab day out and I was spoiled rotten whilst there.

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Joanne

Fallows Hall Ltd

Winner - Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 and 2017

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.



Senior Member

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After having a good mooch on the ATT website I have decided to take this route. Doug - Thanks for suggesting ATT and thanks for everyone else's advice. Much appreciated as usual.

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Nikole wrote:

After having a good mooch on the ATT website I have decided to take this route. Doug - Thanks for suggesting ATT and thanks for everyone else's advice. Much appreciated as usual.


Hi Nikole,

appologies, bit of a busy bee at the min.

yes, reading what it takes to become an ACCA MIP can be a little offputting but I seriously was not trying to deter you. Even if you eventually end up under someone elses flag studying for ACCA is to my mind second to non (as they don't let us take the books into the exams with us, lol... In joke between ACCA and ACA. We know that they're top of the tree but it doesn't stop us ribbing them about that little nugget).

ATT is a fine choice and can lead on to CTA which is right up there on the top table with with ACA and ACCA. Unfortunately I don't know the current transition details but sure someone else here might if you decide to tread that path.

All the best,

Shaun.



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Shaun

Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.



Master Book-keeper

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Chartered anything = top table/wonga!

I completely missed the post at 9.36. No idea how!

Taking books into an exam is just plain ol' cheating in my book.......yet they lord themselves over everyone!



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Joanne

Fallows Hall Ltd

Winner - Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 and 2017

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

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