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Post Info TOPIC: Actual number of holiday days taken irrelevant?


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Actual number of holiday days taken irrelevant?


Hi All,

Hope everyone had a good Christmas and New Year. Probably all extremely busy now tax return deadline is approaching! Luckily I don't have any self-assessment clients, only Limited Companies, as winding down to retirement!

This post follows on really from my previous post regarding calculating holiday pay for irregular hours. If calculating holiday pay based on the 12.07% calculation, is the actual "physical" number of "days" an employee has taken off irrelevant? It is getting near to the end of one of my client's holiday year (April to March) and I asked if they were required to take all their o/s holiday before the end of March. They replied that most of them had almost taken their "day" allowance (i.e. 28 days) but my records show that some of them still have quite a few "hours" accrued to take. How does the 28 days statutory minimum work when it is based on hours worked, as strictly speaking they are not taking "days" off they are taking "hours" off?

confuse

Any comments gratefully received as always!

APOLOGIES - meant to have posted this in the payroll section, not sure how it ended up in here. Can I move it?

Pauline



-- Edited by Stardoe on Thursday 17th of January 2019 12:54:48 PM

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Pauline



Master Book-keeper

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Hi Pauline.

If an employee took (say) 3 days off and their working day was 8 hours you would deduct 24 hours. If at the end of the holiday year the employee had 3 hours left I would be asking the employer whether they wished to inform the employee or carry it over to the next holiday year. At this stage it may be best to give the employer a list of hours still outstanding, but bearing in mind that no-one will know the final hours until the end of the holiday year.



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John

Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.



Guru

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Thank you John. The problem is they don't work a set number of hours a day....sometimes they will work 4/5 and sometimes 10 (Care industry), so I'm working it out based on 12.07% of the hours they have worked. I think I will, as you suggest, let my client know the number of hours they have left as at the end of December and take it from there!

Pauline



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Pauline



Senior Member

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With regards to the employment law side of things a full time employee with 28 days holiday is allowed to carry 8 days forward into the next year or be paid in lieu if they prefer. (Its differnet if they have contractual entitlment of more than 28 days)

So as those 20 days that have to be taken as paid time off equals 71.4% of their holiday entitlement as long as this person has taken that proprtion of their hours accrued off as actual holiday then the employer should be covered I would have thought.

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Julie



Master Book-keeper

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pictures wrote:

With regards to the employment law side of things a full time employee with 28 days holiday is allowed to carry 8 days forward into the next year or be paid in lieu if they prefer. (Its differnet if they have contractual entitlment of more than 28 days)


So as those 20 days that have to be taken as paid time off equals 71.4% of their holiday entitlement as long as this person has taken that proprtion of their hours accrued off as actual holiday then the employer should be covered I would have thought.


hi Julie

re your ''full time employee with 28 days holiday is allowed to carry 8 days forward into the next year '' - I thought they could only carry these forward if there was a relevant agreement (custom & practice perhaps, but generally meaning in their employment contract). Has this been kiboshed?



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Joanne

Fallows Hall Ltd

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Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.



Master Book-keeper

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Hi Julie

I disagree with paid in lieu, that was abolished in 2007 (other than when a worker is leaving). what's your source please?

Hi Joanne

I thought the same as you, but accept I could be wrong.



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John

Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.



Senior Member

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Gov.uk

"Carrying over leave

The workers contract says how many days leave they can carry over into the next year.

If a worker gets 28 days leave, they can carry over up to a maximum of 8 days.

If a worker gets more than 28 days leave, their employer may allow them to carry over any additional untaken leave. Check the employment contract, company handbook or intranet site to see what the rules say.

If a worker cannot take all of their leave entitlement because theyre already on a different type of leave (for example sick, maternity or parental leave), they can carry over some or all of the untaken leave into the next leave year.

An employer must allow a worker to carry over a maximum of 20 of their 28 days leave entitlement if the worker could not take annual leave because they were off sick."

I think you are right about the payment in lieu. The firm I work for offers more than the statuttory minimum. we often get requests (when someone is short of money) for a weeks holiday pay when they are not taking the time off and we have to be careful that they do take enough time off. I think I may need to keep more of an eye on this to make doubly sure.

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Julie



Master Book-keeper

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Key is the contract.

Just in case anyone cant find the page, its
www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/calculate-leave-entitlement

In lieu part I didnt cover off. You can pay in lieu for someone leaving. beta.acas.org.uk/calculating-holiday-pay

ACAS is always a good source and they are really helpful if you have the need to contact them.



-- Edited by Cheshire on Wednesday 23rd of January 2019 03:08:16 PM

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Joanne

Fallows Hall Ltd

Winner - Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 and 2017

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.



Master Book-keeper

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pictures wrote:

Gov.uk

"Carrying over leave

The workers contract says how many days leave they can carry over into the next year.

If a worker gets 28 days leave, they can carry over up to a maximum of 8 days.


Thanks Julie, I must admit that I looked at that page earlier and thought it said same as you thought, then when I re-read after going to other sources, realised it's badly phrased. The second sentence from your extract states that the contract of employment will say how many days leave can be carried over, but only up to a maximum of 8.



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John

Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.



Senior Member

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I think its meant to stop unscrupulous employers preventing staff from taking holiday (hence the outlawing of rolled up holiday pay)

From the point of view of the company I work for its often the staff who request this, not managment so even though their contract doesn't state they can it is usually allowed as long as they have taken their statutory minimum. I know in the past there have been staff who didn't even take their statutory minimum and that had to change. (not me, I usually run out of entitlement!)

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Julie

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