Career Advice Needed - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Lister · Newbie

Career Advice Needed

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Stephen
Welcome to the site.

We are aware of training link with staff from there being posters in the past (but usually suggest you don't add full website details).

Just a quick couple of questions for now....how much is the sage training for the three modules from TL?

Plus on the jobs front, have you seen many ads that say you need sage certs or just sage knowledge?

Have you managed to get any real life experience in an accountancy environment/ look after any charities etc?

Lister · Newbie

Sorry, about including web address. Have edited previous port to remove it.

The cost of level 1, 2 & 3 training is £275 which looks a good deal. With regards to job adverts requiring Sage I have seen enough to prompt me to seek training in it.

The only real life experience (aside from my studies) is from dealings with external audit and internal accountants when I works as an MI Analyst some years back.

abacus12345 · Guru

Hi

Definitely finish your degree first.

For what it is worth, now this is just my own opinion having looked around myself, and I'll gladly stand corrected - Sage 50 is more in use with either accountancy practices, or small businesses - SAP seems to be favoured in industry, amongst other bespoke software.

I do like Sage, Joanne, together with Vince are definitely the sage experts here.

By all means do the course, it will definitely help you whichever way you go in the future.

What I would suggest mind is, before you do the software element, learn how to do bookkeeping the manual way.

All the best

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi
No probs - and thanks for that.

The reason I asked was because you could pick up a cheap version of sage instant from Amazon and a Dummies guide from the library and just learn it yourself, save yourself some hard cash. As a Uni student you are well enough equipped to be able to do something like that on your own. Plus that version of sage has both a demo model, plus a pratice model - the latter you can play around in to your hearts content and not do any kind of damage. Although all three levels £275 seems cheap enough, but I think they will be covering basic bookkeeping concepts which you may not need and whether or not you can go at your own speed is key. Ive no idea. Im self taught on it, the bits of training Ive seen have been pretty basic.

On the whole next stage of your career bit - what is it you ultimately want to do? As I think that perhaps should gear your decision as to what is your next step in terms of exams. You mention Accounting sector - but any idea if this will be as Accountant in practice or within industry? You also mentioned Finance - any specific area?

Have you had a look around the site as there have been some interesting debates around ACCA and CIMA - in fact generally they tend to start off about AAT, but go on to the Chartered (dark) side, but might be worth a look.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

abacus12345 wrote:
Hi

Definitely finish your degree first.

For what it is worth, now this is just my own opinion having looked around myself, and I'll gladly stand corrected - Sage 50 is more in use with either accountancy practices, or small businesses - SAP seems to be favoured in industry, amongst other bespoke software.

I do like Sage, Joanne, together with Vince are definitely the sage experts here.

By all means do the course, it will definitely help you whichever way you go in the future.

What I would suggest mind is, before you do the software element, learn how to do bookkeeping the manual way.

All the best

I do have to keep saying this (to Shaun too wink ) - there are some larger corporates out there who use Sage, generally the ones above 50, but if you can master that, it helps....which is why my advice is more geared to save your hard cash and DIY!

abacus12345 · Guru

He He

I was going to suggest Xero, then I changed my mind :P

No, your advise is worth it's weight in gold.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

You know I do very expensive mates rates Johnny.

I did also think - sage online as you can get a month free and do a lot in a month, but really its a pile of pants and wont help a CV.

VinceH · Expert

I'm going to avoid sounding like an echo by saying what Joanne said, and instead say: "What Joanne said!" :)

The thing with Sage and with any software of its nature at their heart they all do the same thing: Maintain a database of transactions, which all adhere to basic double entry principles. They store that data in different ways, but their individual formats is irrelevant to the end user - all that matters is that the software recognises where the debits and credits go for each transaction it stores.

Where they differ, from most users' points of view, is in the user interface - how you enter a sales invoice, how you enter a bank payment, how you pull the information out, and so on.

A large part of understanding things in that last paragraph comes from understanding the basic principles that the software obeys - which you have largely already learnt, but which such a course would almost certainly aim to teach you before anything else.

To be fair, beyond the basic use Sage does offer some very advanced functionality - particularly on the reporting side, which is incredibly comprehensive. And as well as being incredibly comprehensive, for most users (in my experience) it's incredibly *in*comprehensive, and (based on the same experience) most users therefore don't use it to the extent they could or should.

The problem then is whether such a course would provide any in depth knowledge, or would it barely scratch the surface? I'd wager the latter.

The best way to learn is to play with it - as Joanne says, buy a copy of Instant and a good, up to date book.

And with the money you save on the course, invest in some other popular packages and (if necessary) books, and learn to use those as well.

Lister · Newbie

Industry is most likely my end position and working as a Management Accountant is where I see myself as I believe my experience gained as an MI Analyst would be most transferable into this sort of a role (i.e. 15+ years working with excel etc). I supose Im wondering is it worth my while upskilling with Sage (on a limited budget) with this being my end goal?

And in addition to this whether I am kidding myself in thinking I can acquire a role in accountancy/finance at a £28k level(London based) before finishing my course?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I think that you need to determin which way that you are going, if it's into industry and management accounting then picking up skills in BPMN, Agile, Scrum, Lean, six sigma, Stategic Analysis, Business analysis, data analysis, SAP, SQL, etc. would be much more important to you than Sage.

How are you thinking of picking up SAP? Thats a huge subject that makes learning Sage look like learning noughts and Crosses by comparrison.

If you see your future in financial accounting (either in practice or corporate environments) then Sage could prove useful (essential for practice).

And in the above lies a real issue in misconceptions. Some people work in corporate so assume that what they are doing is management accounting where an accounting department in the corporate environment is actually financial accounting. It sounds as though you have worked in that arena so sure you understand the difference.

You indicate that you are torn between ACCA and CIMA... Little know fact. There are (many) more ACCA people working in industry than CIMA people, however, certain companies (I'm thinking here of one telecoms giant in particular) don't realise that the ACCA syllabus includes all of the CIMA syllabus so will only employ CIMA people as management accountants. Whichever way you go it will be wrong for some employers.

No matter what you study it will never be enough as there is always more knowledge that you need so at some stage you just have to say that you have the basics and what you don't have you can pick up as you go.

The market is different in London so higher rates are quite feasible but you have to remember that you will be fighting for every job against huge numbers of much younger graduates that major businesses always seem to feel are easier to mould into their corporate ideals and they (incorrectly) believe that they will get more years from a graduate than an older employee. (The reality is that the younger people are the less loyal to a company they tend to be).

If you do go down the Sage route then Training Link are a sound company to go with (but don't let them convince you to do ICB as you don't need it and you dont want it on your CV).

My personal opinion is that you should go down the CIMA route and try your hardest to get a job in London with either KPMG or PWC (both great employers) which will look great on your CV and potentially open a lot of doors for you.

All the best and don't forget to keep us informed of your progress,

kindest regards,

Shaun.

p.s. there are some good free courses on Udemy (and a lot of crap, the Foundations in Business Strategy by Professor Michael Lenox is really good), plus Charles Sturt University (Agile project management by Brenton Burchmore is pretty good) and Open Tuition (For management accounting ACCA papers P3 and P5 espechially)