Payroll Training - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Elaine R · Senior Member

Payroll Training

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

I would suggest you look at CIPP, but from your other post about moving away from the business it sounds like that would just be a potential waste of time and your cash! Definately worth outsourcing and I would offer to help but see you have had an offer from John (leger) and as he has worked a lot lot longer than I have doing payroll, I have no doubt he is much better placed to help you.

The biggest issue with Directors is the amount to pay - most Accountants advise keeping them below the LEL threshold and taking as much out as Divis, and despite the new divi tax, for now thats probably what a lot of Accountants are going to keep suggesting. But Ive seen some, much fewer in number, suggest using full tax allowance on the back of the NI employment allowance, but that will not be available in the next tax year for sole director/no employee companies. Mostly its about knowing the tax position of your Director as to what you then advise. Only other consideration then is anything reportable via a P11D. To be honest - you could probably have a really good read up on HMRCs website and go on a couple of their free webinars and then be in a position to know if you want to take it further and do more formal training.
HTH

Elaine R · Senior Member

Hi Joanne,

Thanks for that. The payroll will come in handy for my permanent job search also not just for self-employment. It's not 100% that I will sell my business. I lack experience in certain areas and this affects my confidence a little. Working alone with no support is not ideal if you are trying to build a business.

I have good days and bad days. Some evenings I am really keen and get stuck in and other days I feel tired and don't want to do any work.

The good side is my clients are all good payers so it's silly to give up. I think I need rallying round or need some kind of support/training to get me through.

My own business will be ideal as I step into semi-retirement in the near future as I don't want to give up work altogether.

Elaine

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Elain,

for landing a permanent job as Joanne says accept no replacement than CIPP for Payroll.

Here's a rundown of what gets to the top of employers / temp placement wish lists to work in small firm accounts departments (All practice will want these plus verifiable experience, where temp entry level roles in industry can be less stringent (if you don't go via an agent!)) :

Bookkeeping : AAT
Payroll : CIPP
Credit Control : ICM
Tax : ATT

If your specialism is in any of the above then just go for that one initially.

On the seperate question of your business the support side is why we are all here helping each other. For all the waffle from various accounting bodies they are no replacement for lots of professionals coming together and helping each other out where they can.

The tiredness is probably down to not enjoying the work which may in turn be caused by areas of it that you are not 100% about. This is really one of those businesses that you need to be able to enjoy as you live it rather than it being just a way of bringing in money (Note how many of us are still answering questions at 1 or 2 in the morning and then again friom 8 the next morning).

It may be that you need to reduce your number of clients to the one's that you are comfortable with and also get a permanent role to build your confidence.

I may exude confidence but there have been times in my own transfer from banking to accountancy that I've had to review things. I once sold all of my clients to my practice certificate supervisor and started again. On another occassion I took a three month temporary contract with Credit control department of a company to build up my knowledge on that side of things.

I know that the goal is to have a stable of clients bringing in sufficient income but to get there on occassion you may find it necessary to take the occassional backwards or sideways step.

If you can, consider temping to gain the skills in several different businesses. One of them may become permanent. All of them will give you additional skills to bring to your own business.

Through it all I would keep one or two clients and just lose those that are currently too complex to service and are causing you to not enjoy this. (sounds as though you may have some interest from Joanne in your other thread, that would be an excellent match as remember you also have to sell the transfer of client to the clients and moving them to the bookkeeper of the year is a good sell)

As you gain more knowledge and experience from temp work then you will be prepared for the more complex cases of your own business.

And of course, as I mention above, despite the couple of quite abrasive posts on the site recently you can always ask your questions here.

HTH,

Shaun.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Elaine R wrote:
Hi Joanne,

Thanks for that. The payroll will come in handy for my permanent job search also not just for self-employment. It's not 100% that I will sell my business. I lack experience in certain areas and this affects my confidence a little. Working alone with no support is not ideal if you are trying to build a business.

I have good days and bad days. Some evenings I am really keen and get stuck in and other days I feel tired and don't want to do any work.

The good side is my clients are all good payers so it's silly to give up. I think I need rallying round or need some kind of support/training to get me through.

My own business will be ideal as I step into semi-retirement in the near future as I don't want to give up work altogether.

Elaine

Hi Elaine

We all have moments feeling just as you do. I doubt myself on a very regular basis and totally understand where you are coming from about working alone. The thing with this job as well is that you can have lots of experience but all of a sudden be hit with something new as every single client is different and the subject matter is so broad. Ive said before on this site and I totally mean it - without BKN I wouldnt be able to do this job. There is usually somebody on here who can help out when you have a query - its pretty rare to see a question go unanswered although at times we are all probably guilty of short one line responses instead of providing more helpful info when we are under the kosh with work, certainly a place Ive been of late.

So - use BKN for support - sometimes even just for a giggle, cos thats the only way we can get through sometimes. No question is out of bounds on this site as far as Im concerned - sometimes someone else asks the one we all were afraid to....just like when we were at school!

I do always find things harder at this time of year, dark days, short month, piles of work!!

Feel free to PM me in the future if you wish.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Shamus wrote:

Through it all I would keep one or two clients and just lose those that are currently too complex to service and are causing you to not enjoy this. (sounds as though you may have some interest from Joanne in your other thread, that would be an excellent match as remember you also have to sell the transfer of client to the clients and moving them to the bookkeeper of the year is a good sell)

Shaun.

Thank you young man for such kind words!!!! biggrin biggrin

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Cheshire wrote:
I would suggest you look at CIPP, but from your other post about moving away from the business it sounds like that would just be a potential waste of time and your cash! Definately worth outsourcing and I would offer to help but see you have had an offer from John (leger) and as he has worked a lot lot longer than I have doing payroll, I have no doubt he is much better placed to help you.

The biggest issue with Directors is the amount to pay - most Accountants advise keeping them below the LEL threshold and taking as much out as Divis, and despite the new divi tax, for now thats probably what a lot of Accountants are going to keep suggesting. But Ive seen some, much fewer in number, suggest using full tax allowance on the back of the NI employment allowance, but that will not be available in the next tax year for sole director/no employee companies. Mostly its about knowing the tax position of your Director as to what you then advise. Only other consideration then is anything reportable via a P11D. To be honest - you could probably have a really good read up on HMRCs website and go on a couple of their free webinars and then be in a position to know if you want to take it further and do more formal training.
HTH

Thank you Joanne, but you are a lot nearer to Elaine and presumably her client, so quite happy for you to do it if Elaine considers that a better option.

Got to agree with you on your second paragraph, I think the option to pay salary up to the personal allowance was better (assuming the client had no other income), but obviously this will change in April for a Director with no employees, and salary up to the NI threshold then becomes the better option.