After some very serious networking and marketing, I may now have a client!! He is a friend of a friend's of a friend's...
Anyway, to cut a long story short, this guy is a shopkeeper and has been running his grocery/off license shop for a number of years, and gets his accountant to complete the books for him. He does not know whether his accountant is a certified or chartered accountant.
How would I go about picking up his accounts from where the accountant left off? Would I need to have a meeting with the accountant in order to do this? He may be reluctant to talk to me since he would know I am pinching one of his clients!!
What things should I take into consideration when agreeing to do the accounts for this shop keeper?
Most importantly, do you think I would be suitably qualified in order to do the accounts, since a qualified accountant has been doing them before? Finally, what is the difference between a book keeper and an accountant?
long time since we saw you on here, good to have you back.
You write to the incumbent accountant asking them if there is any reason that you should not take over the books of your client (this is called an ettiquette letter and should be professionally written).
Your client must give the accountant permission to talk to you before they are allowed reply (basic ethic of client confidentiality). Clients don't like this as they think that hiring a new representitive is just that and does not entail the embarrassment of them talking to the accountant before they go. (although email makes that easier).
If you new clients payments to the incumbent are up to date (there may be a get out clause in their contract) then if the accountant cannot convince the client to remain (assuming that they want them to) there is no legal reason for them to not talk to you.
You may hit an issue where accountants will not ackwoledge bookkeepers in which case you will need for your client to give you a copy of the accounts and get all of their paperwork (not the accountants paperwork) back from the accountant.
You are entitled to a copy of the last accounts produced and the trial balance upon which such accounts were built. The accountant does not have to provide anything else although at a price generally everything is negotiable (although you will not get your hands on the clients permanent file).
The difference between a bookkeeper and an accountant is that bookkeeping stops at trial balance where accountancy covers everything including bookkeeping.
the bulk of those calling themselves bookkeepers are in reality accountants but defining themselves as a misuse of the word bookkeeper by the size of the business that they provide a full service for.
Both ICB and IAB drift off into accountancy as their qualifications progress... Exactly the same as any other accountancy qualification... Admit it, you've done both AAT and ICB what really is the difference between them... Besides eithics and tax both of which should be in the ICB syllabus.... Nothing. AAT, ACCA, CIMA, ACA all start with bookkeeping and move onto accountancy just the same as ICB and IAB. The only difference is where they stop, not where they start.
Actually, can you take this post to a new thread as we're already on page three and this is a new twist that may end up at another three pages (and we've not even got onto the what should I consider in relation to a shop yet).
Once you've created the new thread with a copy of your above post I'll move this reply in there and just insert a link to the new thread,
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Here's a copy of a clearance letter I sent last week to an accountant. This is clearly for a limited company so you would need to adapt if it's for a sole trader:
We have been asked to act as accountant and taxation adviser to the above. I understand that you currently act for this company and I therefore ask if you would inform me of any circumstances or information of which you have knowledge and which I need to consider in deciding whether or not formally to accept this appointment. Assuming there are no circumstances of which I need be aware, would you please supply me with the following information:- 1. A copy of the last set of accounts for the year ended 31st March 2013 prepared for the company. 2. A detailed trial balance as at that date. 3. Schedules of fixed assets, stock and work in progress, debtors and prepayments, bank reconciliations and creditors and accruals. 4. A copy of the last submitted corporation tax return. 5. A copy of the last prepared corporation tax computation and capital allowances computation. 6. A note of any claims, elections made and the amount of any losses available. 7. Notes of any outstanding issues. 8. Companies House authorisation code 9. Copies of payroll records 10. Any other information that you feel will be of assistance.
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Do you find that works Rob as after the first two (plus Payroll records I assume although I would need to chase that up) the accountant is not obliged to pass you the other information (although professional courtesy would generally mean that they would accomodate the bulk of it).
I was having a chat with another accountant the other day and their stance was to pass the minimum required. Not because they had any animosity towards the new accountant but rather that in our increasingly litigous society the more information that they provide that they do not have to is the equivalent of giving ex clients ammunition for their guns.
It occured that such is the same reasoning that larger businesses use for not giving references for ex employee's
I used the old arguement that if you do everything right then you should have nothing to fear which started a really interesting debate about the gap between having done anything wrong and the cost (and time) of defending one's position in court which made such not worth defending so far easier to give accross nothing that needs defending against.
I always find those sort of conversations quite illuminating as assumptions about the accountants mindset when not giving information are a million miles from the reality of why they don't.
The above said, the accountant also said that they had no issue giving all required information to someone that they knew personally which I think is yet another strong arguement for networking with as many local accountants as possible (I know that you do that already).
kind regards,
Shaun
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I would expect to get most of it assuming it's all been calculated, often there is no fixed asset register but I would certainly expect the bank rec and tax computations. Certainly I have never had anyone say 'we're not giving that to you'. I think it would be bad form for an accountant not to give this information, I'm not asking for a Sage back up or anything (though I have been sent this on occasion)
While I am in the process of meeting up with the client for this, I seem to have a new client who started up his business a few months ago. He says has all receipts, invoices etc, and just wants someone to 'sort them out' ready for submission to HMRC.
I am due to meet up with him in the next few days, so was wondering if you can advice on what things I need from him and what questions to ask him?
I hope you all had a nice weekend and rearing to go for another week ahead!!
Anyway, apart from my above query for which I would be grateful if you could provide any advice, I now have another question for you kind folks to give me your views on.
I received an email from an accountant stating that he is prepared to provide me with a list of brand new start up companies in my local area for a fixed price. Do you think that would be a good idea in order to get new clients or would it be money wasted and I would be better off doing my own marketing?
And how many other newstart bookkeeping practices is this accountant supplying the same list to?
When you've set up you will start getting lots of these sort of calls. They are selling lists that they are taking from companies that charge them around £200-£300 a year to have access to their databases which identify newstart businesses by sector.
Generally thats restricted to limited companies as they buy a feed from companies house.
The facility is often sold on the basis of MLR / know your client as you get to check absolutely everything about the business, it's owners, close relatives of the owners, etc. including newspaper cuttings which seems something unique to one that contacts me quite regularly.
Your going to ask me now what the facility is called aren't you... Hang on, as I say, I get so many of these things and this one only stands out as I get a really cute sounding Welsh girl phoning me for a chat and a flirt every three months.
Downside is that if I buy their product then she'll stop calling.
Lets just see if I can find the name of the company (don't consider this as a recomendation as I've not actually used the service, just telling you so that you know where the person selling you the lists is getting their list from).
Got it... Creditsafe.
You will probably find that the "accountant" (are you sure that its an accountant or just someone calling themself one) is simply selling you lists of companies that he's extracting either from that or something like it.
Others that you will start to get when you have a practice are firms selling you blocks of clients.
Coming from a background in banking that to me stinks of sub prime.
You bundle up all of your bad debts/customers and sell them on making money from a bad job.
Sure that some of these companies selling on blocks of clients are legit but they are going to struggle for the number selling on packaged up rubbish clients that practices just want rid of.
The key to success is looking at everything sceptically.
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
My first client wants to go ahead and wants me to look after his books. He said he will send me all invoices/receipts and bank statements in the next few days.
In order to make this formal, I want to sign a contract for the work - a bit like signing a new contract with an employer. I presume I can download a skeleton copy from a website?
This client is saying that he only wants me to look after his paperwork for initially 3 months to 'see how things ago.' Do you think think this is a very short period, and that I should gently persuade him to sign a 12 month contact with me?
