Confidence/Experience - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Elaine R · Senior Member

Confidence/Experience

Rhianrach · Expert

kjmcculloch83 wrote:
To all the people on the thread who are thinking about starting upvbut lacking confidence, do you think that mentoring would be the answer. Someone at the end of the phone or email tovask questions if you got stuck, a wee bit of support just to reassure you that you are going in the right direction. Someone to share your frustrations with etc?

Kris

I think that's what I would be lacking. I have people there to bounce things off at work, and that is all I generally need, I suppose I am uncomfortable losing that. Are you offering your self as a mentor Kris smile

-- Edited by Rhianrach on Thursday 4th of October 2012 09:34:09 PM

Rhianrach · Expert

There are quite a few on here who run their own Bookkeepng/Accountancy businesses. My questions would be how confident were you in your abilities? And what level of knowledge had you acquired?

I work for a business doing all the bookkeeping amongst other things and can't help but feel that the transition between working for someone and working for myself is massive. It would be interesting to know if anyone else took the plunge without feeling confident but came out of it ok.

BobHarper · Guru

@Steve - it depends.

You could stick to very simple bookkeeping and earn a living or look at a much bigger transition. In my opinion there are two steps:

1. From employee to self-employed
2. From elf-employed to business owner

Most stop at the first step because they do work IN the business. However, if you take two steps then you can employ/contract someone to do the work for you. This takes care of the operational side of the business and just leaves you to focus on the strategy, marketing, selling and pricing.

Yes, it is a massive transition to run a successful business. You need a wide range of capabilities, but these can all be learned and developed.

Good luck.

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Steve,

When I started I didn't really have any practical experience. Others told me to work for someone for a while to get a grounding, and while it may have been nice I wasn't able to. I started with small sole traders who had simple books, and then moved on from there.

I think if you have a solid understanding and don't bite off more than you can chew there isn't a great issue.

Kris

Spamkebab · Expert

Nice question Steve, funny though, i have been thinking the same sort of thing all day. I'm getting quite worried now as regards gaining employment and ageism (that doesn't exist, honest)

I have 1 or 2 acquaintances that i could probably secure as clients, but where the flippin eck do you start?

I do however, feel comfortable doing as much of our business paperwork as i can lay my hands on.

Rhianrach · Expert

kjmcculloch83 wrote:
Steve,

When I started I didn't really have any practical experience. Others told me to work for someone for a while to get a grounding, and while it may have been nice I wasn't able to. I started with small sole traders who had simple books, and then moved on from there.

I think if you have a solid understanding and don't bite off more than you can chew there isn't a great issue.

Kris

I think you have just hit the nail on the head with what I was thinking of doing. Start really small and build in to something that will take over my employment, then I can chill on the forums all day.

The solid understanding bit is where I struggle. I don't seem to have an issue with what I do at the moment so it may just be a confidence thing.

Rhianrach · Expert

Spamkebab wrote:
Nice question Steve, funny though, i have been thinking the same sort of thing all day. I'm getting quite worried now as regards gaining employment and ageism (that doesn't exist, honest)

I have 1 or 2 acquaintances that i could probably secure as clients, but where the flippin eck do you start?

I do however, feel comfortable doing as much of our business paperwork as i can lay my hands on.

I suppose like me you just have to jump in, I just think it's scary in case I screw up.

If you know the 2 people well enough and take your time it seems like it would be ok.

Rhianrach · Expert

BobHarper wrote:
@Steve - it depends.

You could stick to very simple bookkeeping and earn a living or look at a much bigger transition. In my opinion there are two steps:

1. From employee to self-employed
2. From elf-employed to business owner

Most stop at the first step because they do work IN the business. However, if you take two steps then you can employ/contract someone to do the work for you. This takes care of the operational side of the business and just leaves you to focus on the strategy, marketing, selling and pricing.

Yes, it is a massive transition to run a successful business. You need a wide range of capabilities, but these can all be learned and developed.

Good luck.

I can't see myself running a business, maybe I can look at it as a retirement plan :)

Spamkebab · Expert

How about you jump in first and tell me if the water's warm?

I don't really want to be self employed but it may be my final option.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

It is inevitable that we overthink what could go wrong and don't give ourselves anough credit for the years of study that have got us to here.

We all know more than we think that we do but when you go into a first meeting you always feel as though you will be asked questions but found short of an answer.

Try for your first few clients to be simple and then build upon your knowledge base as you grow.

I always get butterflies before a meeting (even now after more than 22 years running my own business) but keep telling yourself that the other person is there because they need what we can do for them.

Kris's suggestion is to my mind excellent in that you should try to start with clients well inside you comfort zone and then grow.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Bob,

isn't the issue with jumping straight to the bigger transition one of cashflow issues?

I can see your point and it's a sound idea. I'm just thinking of the implications of jumping straight to employer before having foundations set in stone and a track history necessary to gain financial support.

Would not a better approach to be to set yourself (say) a two year post qualification window where one gains the experience and confidence that Steve is looking for and then look at changing the business model... Sorry, I say "and then look at" as if such would not be the plan all along but I think you know what I mean.

kind regards,

Shaun.

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

To all the people on the thread who are thinking about starting upvbut lacking confidence, do you think that mentoring would be the answer. Someone at the end of the phone or email tovask questions if you got stuck, a wee bit of support just to reassure you that you are going in the right direction. Someone to share your frustrations with etc?

Kris

Amanda · Expert

Steve, you took the words right out of my mouth! Kris are you offering a telephone support service now as well!

Elaine R · Senior Member

Yes defo. A mentor would be good. That is what I lack at work right now.
I know that even qualified accountants don't know everything. The ones where I work still refer to books now and then when dealing with certain tax issues.
You couldn't possibly know everything about everything.
I am sure once I got a couple of clients under my belt I would feel different.

I'm actually excited about starting my own part time business. I want it for experience in different areas to what I work now as well as the money side of things.
I've done my mums SA for her pension and also my nephews SA last year and I wasn't nervous about doing those.
I would like to start off with the very basic and build my self up.

I've worked in different finance positions for the last 15 year but when you get stuck in one job just doing the same things every day you lose touch with other parts of finance and that is what makes me lose confidence.

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Amanda wrote:
Steve, you took the words right out of my mouth! Kris are you offering a telephone support service now as well!

Good God, no. Amanda you know what I'm like one the phone. I'd talk about anything except what I was supposed to. I just know when I started the lack of support and people to bounce things off was a huge issue for me. Kris

Spamkebab · Expert

Hey, if it all goes west can't we put all the paperwork back in the plastic pound stretcher bag and give it back to the customer. I can do a somber face as well as i hand over the bag, little shake of the head, eye contact for a split second and then stare at the ground, maybe play a dirge or two.

The Samaritans for Bookkeepers, isn't that already up and running? "The Bookkeepers Forum"

Steve if you would like any help over the future weekends while you get going, give me a shout, same goes for you Elaine.

Have car will travel.

It may cost you a cup of decent coffee though.

MarkS · Expert

I have worked for over 15 years with various CA firms across Central Scotland at different levels (with a 6 months dabble in industry - but the least said about that the better)

I am slightly different to the majority on here in that i dont just offer bookkeeping but the full service of year end accounts, management accounts, payroll, personal tax returns etc.

I currently work full time with a CA firm in Edinburgh but also have over 40 of my own clients. Mixture of sole traders, limited companies, personal tax returns and bookkeeping work. I am on an active marketing drive to obtain new clients and expect to top 50 clients by the end of the year (have already got 13 new clients in the last few weeks). My issue isnt with the technical side of stuff but the client facing stuff and trying to sell your services. This however has proved a lot easier than I thought and have signed up every prospective client that i have met with the exception of one who was basically wanting his accounts done for nothing.

The way I look at it is the person who has contacted you wouldnt have contacted you unless they needed your service so just get in front of them, sell yourself and be confident of what you know (much like you would do at a job interview). You will be surprised that you will know a lot more than you think you do.

Regards

MarkS

Amanda · Expert

Wow Mark, your marketing must be brilliant to get that many in 2 weeks. How do you fit it all in and Full time work as well?

Just goes to prove it can be done. I agree with your Mark it is just like a job interview with a new client, be confident and be yourself.

lor · Guru

I'm working full time, I have about 30 clients now :), unsure what my future holds as my current boss won't let me reduced my hours at all, and I am not giving up my part time business as I want that to be full-time at some point in the future.

I remember my first meeting I poo'ed my pants, very nervous, but now I get a little nervous, but not like I did before.

I had 2 mentors at the start and they checked my work for me, and they are still around now if I need help.

Also if I take on work I'm not happy to do for what ever reason, time, software, knowledge, then he is around to do it for me. So I'd say you defo need a mentor.

Not sure whether to keep struggling with full time job and part time company, or to go part time in my job (working for someone else!) and have more time to build my practice, mmmmmm, decisions!.

-- Edited by lor on Friday 5th of October 2012 05:44:05 PM

Elaine R · Senior Member

Blimey Mark. Thats hard going. Saying that I am in the same boat. I work full time and am trying to get my own bookkeeping business off the ground.

The question is Mark. How do you find so many clients if you work full time? Do you contact them all in the evenings?
That was another thing that was bothering me. Trying to find clients whilst working full time.
I keep looking on PPH for bits of jobs to get me going but so far no one has accepted any of my proposals.
I was going to try and target local shops and businesses to do the bookkeeping and also go onto building sites looking for Self employed people and offer to do their self assessments. I've done my nephews and also my mums for her pension and so far they have seemed straightforward. I am so after doing a few more I will become very comfortable and experienced with them.
Eventually I would like to do some management accounts as well but am going to concentrate on starting at the bottom and working my way up!

Amanda · Expert

Go for it Elaine, Subbys on building site could be a good place to start, although be warned they are normally the most disorganised ones!! Better with their hands than any paperwork!

Small businesses, what about the local plumber/electrician?

Elaine R · Senior Member

Hi Amanda,

Plumber and electricians are on my check list. They may be working on my local building site. I have a sandwich shop that has shown a bit of interest but nothing confirmed yet.
I was even going to approach florists as I have one very close by. I know they can be disorganised as I have a roofer who lives a couple of doors from me and he does his own self assessments. He admitted to me that he doesn't keep all his receipts!! I may give him some leaflets to pass to other subbies.

Elaine

MarkS · Expert

Amanda/Elaine

Yes it is difficult to fit in, especially with 3 young kids, but it can be done. The work is out there. Because i work full time (9-5 Mon - Fri) then i can only meet potentials clients in evenings or weekends. So far that hasnt been a problem for clients and most actually prefer it as the businesses tend to be OMB so they are working themselves during the day.

The 13 clients i have mentioned may be a bit of a misnomer as i count a limited company and their director separately if the director needs a tax return. If a sole trader i view the accounts and tax return as one. For your info the 13 clients over the last few weeks are split as

1. Ltd Company - online bidding site

2. Ltd Company - owner of 1 also owned this company but had someone else doing the accounts

3. Director of company 1 and 2 above

4. Sole Trader - Marketing mailshot

5. Ltd Company - sole trader in 4 above asked me to set up and will be doing the accounts when active

6. Ltd Company - online bidding site

7. Director of 6 above

8. Sole Trader - Marketing mailshot

9. Ltd Company - solet trader in 8 above asked to me set up and will be doing accounts when active as will be splitting the business for commercial reasons

10. Ltd Company - Marketing mailshot

11. Director of 10 above

12. Ltd Company - Marketing mailshot

13. Director of 12 above

Additionally when was out seeing and signing up clients 10 and 11 another business in the same unit asked if can help with SAGE (I teach SAGE at local enterprise company about once every couple of months). I am going out to do a training session in a few weeks and then take over their accounts as they asked if i could do that (not a problem). So another Ltd company client, another director personal tax return and maybe some payroll work (they have 7 employees). Also client 10 and 11 has someone who works on a contract basis and they were there when i was there. They says that both them and their partner are looking for an accountant for their self assessment tax returns.

Some people might classify the above as 6 clients but at the end of the day it fees and that is just under £8k for all the above.

I would like to share my marketing strategies with you but as you can appreciate i know what works for what i am looking for and will keep my secrets to myself. Unlike a few others who spout airy fairy waffle (somebody called breakers or something?????)

Anyway lunchtime is over at FT job so better get back to work.

Got a busy weekend ahead to with own stuff. Got about 4 jobs to get done plus engagements letters to send out plus more marketing work. Oh the joys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards

MarkS

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Hi Mark,

What bidding site do tou use? I did use choose-your-accountant, but with the quality of leads falling and the price rising I've decided to abandon it.

Kris

MarkS · Expert

Hi Kris

As said, only reasonable that i keep my marketing strategies to myself.

Sorry.

Regards

MarkS

PS if i said where i have been on everyone would be on there and would just be an increased level of competition.

Amanda · Expert

When are you giving up the full-time job Mark?

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

MarkS wrote:
Hi Kris
As said, only reasonable that i keep my marketing strategies to myself.
Sorry.
Regards
MarkS
PS if i said where i have been on everyone would be on there and would just be an increased level of competition.

Not a problem, it's each to their own. Kris

MarkS · Expert

Probably when have monthly standing orders in place of about £2.5k-£3k. In the process of getting existing clients onto monthly payments as all my new ones I insist on them paying monthly so they are fully paid by their year end.

Though may consider part time options as a transation rather than working fully for myself to start with.

Regards

MarkS

Rhianrach · Expert

Spamkebab wrote:
Hey, if it all goes west can't we put all the paperwork back in the plastic pound stretcher bag and give it back to the customer. I can do a somber face as well as i hand over the bag, little shake of the head, eye contact for a split second and then stare at the ground, maybe play a dirge or two.

The Samaritans for Bookkeepers, isn't that already up and running? "The Bookkeepers Forum"

Steve if you would like any help over the future weekends while you get going, give me a shout, same goes for you Elaine.

Have car will travel.

It may cost you a cup of decent coffee though.

Thanks bud, if I ever take the plunge I'll call you over and we can screw things up together wink

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Spamkebab wrote
The Samaritans for Bookkeepers, isn't that already up and running? "The Bookkeepers Forum"
The diffence being that the Samaritans try and stop people jumping off tall building where we paint targets on the ground and take bets.

pDm · Senior Member

Shamus wrote:
Spamkebab wrote
The Samaritans for Bookkeepers, isn't that already up and running? "The Bookkeepers Forum"
The diffence being that the Samaritans try and stop people jumping off tall building where we paint targets on the ground and take bets.

I was drinkning tea when I read this... Off to change my t-shirt biggrin

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I think that some of my posts need to come with a public health warning and a recommended distance of screen from reader. lol

This one is still one of my favourites :

http://www.book-keepers.org.uk/t42511473/is-there-any-difference-between-finance-and-accoutns/

Shaun.

pDm · Senior Member

... off to change my t-shirt... AGAIN

Spamkebab · Expert

Rhianrach wrote:
Spamkebab wrote:
Hey, if it all goes west can't we put all the paperwork back in the plastic pound stretcher bag and give it back to the customer. I can do a somber face as well as i hand over the bag, little shake of the head, eye contact for a split second and then stare at the ground, maybe play a dirge or two.

The Samaritans for Bookkeepers, isn't that already up and running? "The Bookkeepers Forum"

Steve if you would like any help over the future weekends while you get going, give me a shout, same goes for you Elaine.

Have car will travel.

It may cost you a cup of decent coffee though.

Thanks bud, if I ever take the plunge I'll call you over and we can screw things up together

I look forward to cocking it up alongside you Steve lol.