The route to becoming a Bookkeeper? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

ChipRivers · Member

The route to becoming a Bookkeeper?

semsley · Guru

What's you full time employment? Is it anything to do with book-keeping?

For a self-employed book-keeper either ICB or IAB qualifications and membership is the route to take. When you become a member (based on qualification or exemption) you can apply for a practising certificate which will cover you under MLR which is obligatory.

However, if you have never done any practical book-keeping except studying and exams I would strongly advise you to maybe do some voluntary work in order to gain some experience in the real world which is vastly different from anything you may encounter in an exam.

ChipRivers · Member

My full time work is with the Fire Service as a manager in the Emergency Control Room; nothing to do with bookkeeping!

hondagirl · Veteran Member

hi, its the first time ive replied to a post rather than poting myself so here goes..

I decided to retrain during my maternity leave as my company relocated taking my job with it. I did nothing to do with accounts at all, in fact i sold engines! After a lot of reading up and time spent on here reading peoples comments i decided on premier trainings ICB route. I started in feb and passed level one in may and am well on the way to finishing my level 2 manual. Im finidng the course great, lots of tutor support and good assignments, for someone like me who has no experience I would recommend them. I went for ICb becasue i want to go self employed, Im trying to get volunteer work / lower skilled work to gain experience as its obvious that quals arent goint to be enough to get clients. feel free to pm me if you need anymore info, i would like to have done AAT and may still do it in the future but for me, icb seemed the more practical route.
Bear in mind ive been starting from scratch with no prior knowledge and juggling 2 older kids plus newborn baby, your work rate may well be faster wink

ChipRivers · Member

Do I have to sign up to one of the online learning courses? Is it possible to obtain the syllabus from either the ICB or IAB and self study from the many good books available, then just sit the required exams at at appropriate test centre?

Kaz82 · Veteran Member

Hi
I also did the introduction to bookkeeping and accounting course with the OU.

And I dont know if you aware but you can gain exemption from the IAB qualifications.

This means that if you have a photocopy of your letter that the OU send to tell you that you have passed. Send it off to the IAB along with you membership form and payment. They will ask for two references and if you do not have anyone who can vouch for your bookkeeping skills personal references will do, or your employer.

Thay put your application to the IAB commitee and let you know within a month if you can become a member (MIAB) I am still waiting to find out!!

Hope you find a route that suits you

ChipRivers · Member

Kaz82 wrote:

Hi
I also did the introduction to bookkeeping and accounting course with the OU.

And I dont know if you aware but you can gain exemption from the IAB qualifications.

This means that if you have a photocopy of your letter that the OU send to tell you that you have passed. Send it off to the IAB along with you membership form and payment. They will ask for two references and if you do not have anyone who can vouch for your bookkeeping skills personal references will do, or your employer.

Thay put your application to the IAB commitee and let you know within a month if you can become a member (MIAB) I am still waiting to find out!!

Hope you find a route that suits you

Hi KAZ82,

I recall reading on the OU website that I could gain exemption for the IAB, however, I am looking to further my training to gain a deeper and broader knowledge of the subject. I very much enjoyed the OU course and believe I have gained a very good grasp of bookkeeping but I am sure there is much more for me to learn before I can expect to start offering my services.

clare92 · Veteran Member

Hi, I bought some second hand ICB work books, then booked the exams straight through ICB website. Its a lot cheaper! But i had worked in a accounts for 13 years prior to that so not sure if its good for someone with no prior knowledge.
I would have gone down the road of exemption through experience but was told my experience needed to be with an accountancy practice, which it wasn't, and that a qulaified accountant would have to give the references.

Clare

louis · Veteran Member

You can self study both ICB and IAB, but the IAB syllabus is changing, so I'm not sure if the new syllabus would allow you to self study.

You can purchase Frank Woods Business Accounting 1 & 2. It will cover all three levels of the ICB qualification.

If you want to use a training provider then www.premiertraining.co.uk and www.idealschools.co.uk are highly recommended.

Scotchpie · Veteran Member

Hi KAZ82,

I recall reading on the OU website that I could gain exemption for the IAB, however, I am looking to further my training to gain a deeper and broader knowledge of the subject. I very much enjoyed the OU course and believe I have gained a very good grasp of bookkeeping but I am sure there is much more for me to learn before I can expect to start offering my services.

If you have a good grasp of bookkeeping but want to further your studies, why not use the OU qualification to join the IAB then start AAT.

I started with ICB but switched over to AAT as I want to get exemptions from CIMA. I'm finding the AAT more in depth than ICB as it also covers management accounts. You may be even to start at the intermediate level with your OU qualification.

Here's what the AAT involves taken from their website.

"1.   At the first level youll learn finance administrator skills, such as double entry bookkeeping, basic costing principles, and purchase, sales and general ledgers. This level is roughly equivalent to GCSE grades A C.

2.   The second level covers more complex finance officer processes, including final accounts for sole traders and partnerships, reports and returns, and professional ethics. Its the approximate equivalent of an A-Level, or Higher.

3.   The final level deals with finance team leader skills, including financial statements for limited companies, complex management accounting tasks, management skills and specialist learning areas.

If you already have qualifications or experience, you may be able to start studying at a higher level. Take AAT Skillcheck, our short online test, which recommends a starting level based on your score."

Best of luck in whatever you decide.

-- Edited by Scotchpie on Thursday 26th of August 2010 08:49:57 PM

ICBUK · Guru

Hello all,

The ICB also give exemptions from the OU qualification.

I would say there is not much point in doing IAB then AAT, if you want AAT just start there.

If you want ICB text books they recommend Kaplan books, you can get them from the ICB's website http://www.bookkeepers.org.uk/Shop/Category/Text_Books or search on Amazon/E-bay for second hand ones.

Where as you can join the accountancy bodies via ICB IAB it is easier via AAT. If you are not bothered about going that far then really just look at the cost of examinations, where you would have to go to sit the examination, and availability of courses.

Hope this helps.

James

Rich · Veteran Member

Hi James,

Just noticed this post.
I have just completed the O.U. course B190 and if my results are good when I receive them would be very interested in taking my studies in bookkeeping further.
I am aware of the exemptions that can be gained from the IAB and e-mailed the ICB early last week to see if they offered similar exemptions,but have as yet not received a reply.
I dont know if you personally could clarify what,if any exams you would gain exemption from,or if anyone else reading this post could help,but I would be very grateful for any information anyone may have.

Many thanks,

Rich.

Cabby · Member

Hi Rich,

I also emailed the ICB but did not receive a reply so will try again.

Did you get a reply from the ICB about exemption with the OU B190 course. Did you get exempt from just level 1 or did they include level 2.

Dave

ICBUK · Guru

Hi Guys,

It will get you an exemption from the ICB Level 1 only.

Sorry for the delay, our education team were a little taken back that the IAB offer full membership and thought they had made a mistake.

After another review, they were correct, it will only get you an exemption from the Level 1 Certificate in Basic Bookkeeping.

meldowie · Veteran Member

I would strongly advise that anyone taking bookkeeping courses through the ICB, IAB whoever and have never worked in the industry before DO NOT set up a bookkeeping business on your own. Just because you have done some certified courses does not make you able to offer a bookkeeping service without support and guidance on your own. What you have learned in the courses is the fundamentals of bookkeeping that is all. You have not learned the practicalities of offering the service to small business who are relying on you to do their bookkeeping correctly as well as offer them advice on the subject. I would not even volunteer if you have have no practical experience unless you are supporting a treasurer or accountant already placed in that business as they can teach and manage what you are doing.

I believe the AAT courses require that you have so much practical experience before you are given a Practice Cert or equiv or even your letters. So would recommend if you are looking for courses that you look to them.

GinnyBee · Veteran Member

Regarding the AAT to become a professionally qualified member it is compulsory to pass all the level 4 exams AND have at least one year (full time or part time equivalent) of relevant experience which must be signed off by a suitably qualified person. Just passing the exams will NOT allow you to say you are an MAAT (Member of the Association of Accounting Technicians)

However, to get a pracricing licence you have to submit evidence of you ability to do the work for the services you provide, i.e. the length and depth of your experience. You are licenced ONLY in the areas where you can show suitable evidence. The process takes quite a lot of doing.

-- Edited by GinnyBee on Saturday 8th of January 2011 03:52:30 PM

ICBUK · Guru

Hello,

The ICB was setup to be slightly different, so in the 90's (when the ICB was formed) if you were with AAT you would need to complete your course and examinations, then find work in an office as a 'junior accountant' (normally lower paid) before you can set up your business.

Back then I don't think the AAT intended on making self employed bookkeepers, they were aiming to create accountants.

One of the ICB's aim was to help its members set up their business as a bookkeeper, so that after your study you could get the support you needed to go straight into work in a growing profession, employed or self employed.

Melanie I think your advice to not setup a business on your own is correct, but ICB members are not alone, they are part of the worlds largest bookkeeping community. The ICB helps 1,000's of bookkeepers start a business every year.

meldowie · Veteran Member

James, that may be so but people can't live on the phone with the ICB to run their business. You are there if they should have questions of course but they must know how to run a business practically. Having practical experience has got to be taken more seriously. There is so much more to knowing your debits and credits and whether it is a balance sheet account or income statement account. Those are the fundamentals of bookkeeping/accounting. To run a successful bookkeeping company you need much more than just that and the ICB on the end of the phone. You need to know how to manage the work and people. Implement processes and procedures which enables you to take a Tesco bag of receipts and put them into a set of accounts which requires all the skills that you gain through the practical side of things and then ensure you don't receive that Tesco bag again, this involves good financial administration again learned through practical office procedures. Not to mention the management and evaluation, supervision that the practical experience provides. I learned so much from working in accounts departments for larger corporates which has helped me enormously in starting out on my own. My husband is an Accountant and I still look to him for this support.

Just my opinion of course, others may disagree.

Peasie · Expert

meldowie wrote:
Just my opinion of course, others may disagree.

Some people choose bookkeeping because they have had enough of working for someone else and want to work for themselves.

semsley · Guru

I wholeheartedly agree Melanie, frequently I am amazed at questions asked by people who are charging other people for a professional service. You can't beat experience but exeperience should also be matched by knowledge.

semsley · Guru

Peasie wrote:

meldowie wrote:
Just my opinion of course, others may disagree.
Some people choose bookkeeping because they have had enough of working for someone else and want to work for themselves.

Fine but surely that is a rather selfish way of looking at things. Just because one wants something doesn't mean that they will be any good at it. I could want to be a top opera singer but taking a few lessons wouldn't make me one!!!

Peasie · Expert

semsley wrote:

Peasie wrote:

meldowie wrote:
Just my opinion of course, others may disagree.
Some people choose bookkeeping because they have had enough of working for someone else and want to work for themselves.
Fine but surely that is a rather selfish way of looking at things. Just because one wants something doesn't mean that they will be any good at it. I could want to be a top opera singer but taking a few lessons wouldn't make me one!!!

I think if there was an exam in opera singing then you would be found out at the exam stage. I know exams can be passed and then people can go self employed without really having a clue. I was just a bit annoyed at the "DO NOT" bit being in capitals and the fact the same thing was posted in two different threads.

Back to my opera singing now.........

meldowie · Veteran Member

Peasie that would be fine if you were opening a shop or something. Bookkeeping is one the most important aspects of running a business. If it is done poorly or inaccurately that business will fail or be subjected to huge fines! I don't think it should be entered into so nonchalantly.

meldowie · Veteran Member

It was in 2 threads because it is about the same issue. Quite frankly I am tired of fixing "bad" bookkeeping and speaking to business owners and accountants on this issue. It is a problem like it or not it needs addressing in my opinion. So I stand by my "DO NOT". I am very passionate about this issue. I will keep commenting on it until people take it more serious.

GinnyBee · Veteran Member

meldowie wrote:

Peasie that would be fine if you were opening a shop or something. Bookkeeping is one the most important aspects of running a business. If it is done poorly or inaccurately that business will fail or be subjected to huge fines! I don't think it should be entered into so nonchalantly.

Personally I would not feel confident enough to set up my own bookkeeping business if I didn't have knowledge (AAT and on the job) as well as experience. But I understand some people see it as a new career and I respect that but hope anyone setting up with no experience takes things slow and only takes on the work they can deal with competently until they are more experienced.

Having said that though while working as an Accounts Clerk in practice I came across a very wide range of bookkeepers etc, some great and some awful - and often it had more to do with how the person worked and their diligence rather than the experience or qualifications they had.

i think the key is to know what you can do now and not try to take on more than you are able to deal with right now. You can always take on those sort of jobs when you've built up your confidence and experience.

Editing to include comment on meldowie's post which came up while I was typing!

meldowie wrote:

It was in 2 threads because it is about the same issue. Quite frankly I am tired of fixing "bad" bookkeeping and speaking to business owners and accountants on this issue. It is a problem like it or not it needs addressing in my opinion. So I stand by my "DO NOT". I am very passionate about this issue. I will keep commenting on it until people take it more serious.

I agree that there is a lot of bad bookkeeping out there, I've had to deal with some of it personally working in practice. But I found it could be the very experienced bookkeepers who were worst, some had the attitude "I've always done it this way so I'm not changing now" despite the fact that it was the ninth year I'd drafted this companies accounts and pointed out the SAME things every year. She simply said I was too young to know what I was talking about!!!!! (I'm 34 and MAAT)

However, most of the good bookkeepers I dealt with had built up good experience, well except for one woman who sent in a hand written note saying to excuse any errors in the spreadsheets as it was her first job. It was perfect!!!!

Sorry for the long post.

-- Edited by GinnyBee on Tuesday 11th of January 2011 09:58:03 PM

meldowie · Veteran Member

I do agree that you will get issues all levels of experience comes down to the practical training. I'm certainly not saying that I'm gods gift to bookkeepers either. I'm just trying to say taking some courses and passing exams is not enough to open and run your own bookkeeping business particularly if you don't have someone you can learn from further in the real world

ICBUK · Guru

Hello,

I think we are talking about different things here. I was refering to running a business, regarless of what it is (finding clients, dealing with business setup, advertising etc).

However, an ICB bookkeeper should be very good at the bookkeeping. The ICB has some of the toughest entry requirements (others have posted about this on here smile

), the highest past marks (some exams are even 100% or fail).

Therefore hopefully an ICB member will have been tried and tested in all their knowledge. If they are unsure about something they get unlimited telephone/email support from the ICB.

Being forced to work under an accountant for 1 year does not mean bookkeeping errors will be picked up though.

And like Peasie said, some have years of experience and so only need the business support side of things.

semsley · Guru

However, an ICB bookkeeper should be very good at the bookkeeping. The ICB has some of the toughest entry requirements (others have posted about this on here smile), the highest past marks (some exams are even 100% or fail).

Therefore hopefully an ICB member will have been tried and tested in all their knowledge. If they are unsure about something they get unlimited telephone/email support from the ICB.

Being forced to work under an accountant for 1 year does not mean bookkeeping errors will be picked up though.

I have no doubt that your entry requirements and exams are tough and robust, however, no amount of doing "paper exercises" can prepare someone for all the various different kinds of businesses and information (or lack of it) provided by clients, particularly new businesses that have started up knowing their business but totally clueless about what needs to be accounted for, the record keeping involved and the legalities to be complied with. That is why I agree with Melanie that people who have had no previous experience of book-keeping should not go straight into self-employment after doing a course.

-- Edited by semsley on Wednesday 12th of January 2011 11:57:51 PM

meldowie · Veteran Member

Thanks Semsley for supporting me. I feel I may be upsetting a few people and have been a bit too forward in my thoughts. I am a very outspoken person say what I think. Not going to be received well with some I guess but won't deter me in my quest to make bookkeepers more valued and respected.