I have just registered on this site. I am looking to start out on the Bookkeeping Training Course having stayed at home for 8 yrs to look after my daughter. I previously worked in Personal Tax in a practise but don't want to go back down this route as I would prefer to be able to do something more flexible in terms of working hours and school holidays. I have been looking at finance posts in schools but I feel that it would benefit me if I had some bookkeeping and payroll qualifications. I have previously done a few small computerised payrolls but feel very out of date with everything having not been working for so long and lacking in confidence. I may also like to think about setting up my own bookkeeping business but that would be after qualifying and getting some actual work experience.
I have been trying to look into the training and thought that there was only the ICB body and had almost decided on signing up with Ideal schools complete package which incorporates all manual and computerised levels and one in payroll. I then stumbled on IAB and this website and was looking at Woodfall(?) but this only seems to cover the IAB manual levels and not payroll.
Is either of these 2, ICB or IAB recogised better than the other? Also I think the ICB has meetings at Cheltenham and as I live in Gloucester this would be really convenient for me if I became a member but I couldn't see that the IAB had any is this the case?
Is either or them any harder to study and pass than the other?
Do both of them provide support to members once qualified?
I am not concerned about any further accounting career so I don't think I am interested in AAT.
I have had my time working on a career path in Personal Tax before having my daughter and now just want something that I can study for and achieve qualifications and then fit in flexible hours as a P/T sort of thing as a second income for our family.
I also wanted to do a distance learning course rather than a college as I have the time to crack on with the studies and don't want to take too long over them and the qualifications if at all possible.
I am pushed for time to come to a decision as Ideal Schools is offering 15% off their study packages if you sign up before 31st March and Woodfall (sorry if this is not quite right) is offering a reduction on the combined courses of over £100 if you sign up by tomorrow!
Any quick responses would be very gratefully received. I will log on later on this evening to see if anyone has managed to see this and help me. Thanks to anyone who does.
Choosing a qualification to pursue is not a decision you want to rush into. Colleges and study providers always have offers open so don't think that if you miss this one that another won't come along.
Both the ICB and IAB are well respected qualifications. If you're not sure which one to take or which study provider to go with, then IMO it probably best if you do a bit more research and once you've made your mind up you should feel more comfortable with your end decision.
Best of luck.
Dustin
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"People who are exceptionally good in business arent so because of what they know but because of their insatiable need to know more"
Dustin is right in suggesting holding back and doing a bit more research, training providers are falling over themselves at the moment to sign up people, and tempting them with discounts, but regardless of those attractive offers, its a lot of money to splash out so take a step back and make a decision in your own time - not theirs !
Both ICB and IAB are good qualifications to have so I don`t envy you the task of deciding between the two. But I would recommend doing a bit of research on training providers as the degree of the `distance learning` experience can vary in terms of support, tution and contact.
I studied the DIY method - I purchased past papers from ICB, bought a couple of accounts books (ICB do one `Practical Bookkeeping` £27 - takes you through both levels 1 & 2 manual) and sat the exams. For the computerised levels 2 & 3, I had already had experience using Sage so again, I bought ICBs past papers and sat the exams.
The support you get from ICB is good, their website has a members section with advice for practicing bookkeepers. A job vacancies section which at the moment has 162 vacanices covering the UK, ranging from full time, part time to just a couple of hours per week. Im not sure what IAB has to offer, hopefully other members of the forum can advise ??
Ive been practicing for a year now and enjoy the freedom and flexibility being self employed gives me. However, you do need to put in a lot of hard work but I think its worth it particularly in terms of working around children.
So, a few more things to think about - just don`t rush into signing up with a provider until you are 100% sure they are right for you.
I would agree with the previous two replies in that the ICB and IAB are both good. If you decide to eventually become a member of either organisation and pay the appropriate fees you will be offered benefits from both organisations.
The qualifications offered by the IAB are better in the sense that they have recognition status and are accredited by the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority (QCA). The IAB also offer qualifications in payroll.
I hope this additional information is of some help.
Thanks very much for replying Dustin and it is good to know that these providers generally have offers on and presumably might be open to negotiation in these difficult times if there offers are not still on.
Thanks Julie for your quick and informative reply.
I wonder if I could just ask you if you had any bookkeeping experience before embarking on the DIY way of doing it or if you went from scratch? I had seen that book advertised on ICB's website and wondered if it would be sufficient for me as I come from a financial working background having done Personal Tax which at times involved adjusting accounts for tax purposes and fixed assets computations and doing rental accounts and very tiny hobby-type accounts for sole traders occasionally.
Was the book well laid out and easy to follow with chapters on the topics to take you through the exams?
Does it have any examples to work out?
It did appeal as it was so much cheaper than signing up for a distance learning course and is almost worth doing anyway before signing up I suppose but it would be nice to hear something about it before sending for it as the ICB website doesn't give any details about it.
Also what made you pick ICB over IAB?
Have you come across anyone who has not wanted to employ your services because you have this qualification as opposed to the other?
Thanks for your reply and could I ask exactly what you mean by "recognition status" and what the QCB board is?
I know although you aren't really supposed to say it but especially some year ago ACCA qualifications were always considered the higher and more technical accountancy qualification than the Certified accountancy qualifications and for some jobs employers would choose ACCA over the Certified trained accountants.
Is this the case at all with bookkeepers and the IAB and ICB qualifications or does it not have such a marked difference?
I am after all not looking to embark on a high-flying career and so it may not matter to me but not knowing anything about Bookkeeping qualifications and institutes it is nice to be able to ask those with experience of this area of work for their advice and what they have come across in their field.
I can't say anything about IAB as I don't know anything. Maybe someone who does can tell you what is on offer.
I went with ICB (basically because it was the one I found first, did not know about IAB), but find ICB helpful - there is a lot of support if you want to be a self employed bookkeeper and once you have become an associate member (level 2) you have access to job vacancies board on the ICB website which has some full time jobs and others part time for freelancers (self employed) and I have found that helpful.
I had 14 years experience in bookkeeping before deciding to take the qualifications. After I became an associate member of the ICB would say that I was getting double the number of new clients (as before some new clients not interested in experience they wanted qualifications).
I have to say my experience has been different to Alison's. Since I set up as a book keeper many moons ago, my experience has been that clients don't care what letters you have after your name, only that you can actually do the work you've been engaged to do. Of course if you have some letters then all well and good, but not having any hasn't hindered my business thus far. Thats not to say I wouldn't pursue any in the future, but it would be for personal reasons not business reasons. The ones I would look at would be the ICB or IAB though!
The ICB book (you can also get this from Amazon - another good all round bookkeeping book is Business Accounts Osborne, again from Amazon). The ICB book is very good, well laid out with sections to test your understanding. It goes through double entry, ledger accounts, sales and purchase ledgers, statements, petty cash systems, bank recs, drafting trial balance, depreciations, accruals and prepayments and finally VAT. Together with the Osborne book you would be well equipped to complete levels 1 and 2 ICB manual.
There are also lots of computerised accounts books, again it is worth looking at Amazon and Osbornes websites.
I had always worked in and around accounts since leaving school, so the DIY methods suited me, but I think with the experience you have had to date, you will be able to pick it up quickly and for that I think it is worth getting some past papers and looking at what is expected of you, from there, make your decision as to whether to go it alone or sign up. But as I have already said, please check the providers out first.
I opted for ICB because I wanted to set up as self employed quickly, as after completing level 1 and level 2 (either manual or computerised) you can apply for a practicing certificate and you have the support of ICB and the opportunity of using their name/crest on your stationary, sales flyers, business cards (they are strict about how you use these and what bookkeeping services you are allowed to advertise as being qualified to do !).
Finally, in my experience so far, clients just want to know that you can offer them a good quality bookkeeping service. I have only been asked about my qualifications once and Im afraid they said `ICB - Who !`
So, it really is up to you now - so many things to think about I know ! You have already started the process by posting on the forum and getting a feel and idea about bookkeeping already, whatever way you go make sure you are happy with it.
I have to say my experience has been different to Alison's. (Quote)
You are quite lucky, a lot of potential clients I met before I had qualifications were more interested then qualifications then experience. Maybe it varies in different parts of the country. Maybe some of new customers I have got since I got my qualifications may be because I have more confidence in myself since getting the qualifications, and some of these new clients are because they are the ones that think qualifications necessary.
Thanks again for your really helpful reply. I feel that I am leaning towards the ICB if as it appears there is nothing much to choose between them. I like the idea of being able to do your first exam at home to get you going and then more frequent timings to be able to sit the exams. Also I liked there website which I found easy to get around and when I rang them to ask a question they were extremely helpful and friendly.
Thank you for your idea of getting some past papers to look at first before deciding on the training to follow. I think that is an excellent idea and one I had not thought of doing. It will show me the level the questions are aimed at and I could decide if I feel I can tackle them on my own with the book or if I feel I need the back up of a full course. I could also see then if I felt I could manage the early Levels on my own and just go for the course for the last level which would cut the costs down considerably!
I assume you just buy the past papers from the ICB do you? I will give them a ring later to see if I can get hold of some.
Have you done the Diploma in Payroll Management exam or not? If so did you have any text books you could recommend for following that course? I would have to get the most uptodate of any books for doing that of course because the benefits and tax rates change each year.
I assume it is good to get some employment experience fairly soon as well but do you think you need to have got the Level 2 exam under your belt before you would be able to handle any books even say for charities on a voluntary basis?
Thank you so much for taking the time to help answer my questions. It is very much appreciated and does make things a lot clearer being able to speak to someone who has done it all before.
Glad to be of help - it really is a minefield of info when you first start out - but you are one your way now !
No, I didnt do the payroll level as this is something I have not been asked to do for clients yet ! but it is something I am considering. I have very limited payroll experience and so I would probably sign up for a course, but that is in the future.
And yes, you buy the past papers £5.00 each from ICB.
Although you do not need qualifications to provide a bookkeeping service, if you where to join ICB you would not be able to legitimately start until you had completed level 2 (either manual or computerised), that is, if you wanted to advertise yourself as an associate or member of ICB. But I think it would be a good idea to try and get some practical experience. Perhaps you know someone, family or friend who you could use as a tester ?
A lot comes down to how confident you feel, and I agree with Wendy when she says having qualifications gives you more confidence. It sounds to me like you have made your mind up !
I did the payroll qualification because I had clients wanting payroll.
I had done payroll before in a few different jobs so had enough experience through these jobs (had done same manual payroll and some on sage) so all I did was bought past paper, glanced through it to see what type of questions would be asked on it (did not bother actually doing it as would have been a pain to set up sage payroll for practise then have to do the same for the actual), would say it is fairly easy if you have payroll experience (if no experience then if you do it might be beneficial to go on a course or buy some text books).
I rang up ICB today and asked about the past papers but apparently they won't sell them to you until you are registered as a student with them but they are going to send me some details about themselves next week.
I also rang some Financial employment agents to ask what they thought about the qualifications when putting people forward for jobs and what employers asked them for. They didn't seem to worry whether you had ICB or IAB but said some employers did seem to ask for AAT often. However I felt this may be the bigger employers in industry and I am not looking to go down that field of employment and so as I don't want to do a bookkeeping exam as a lead into some further training I feel I would rather do stand alone bookkeeping exams offered by ICB or IAB.
I also spoke to a largish employer of bookkeepers who seem to run an agency which sounds a bit like a factory environment not really a personal service and they were only interested in people who had experience of Sage accounts and payroll not any qualifications so I didn't feel this was what I wanted.
I therefore took the plunge and ordered the Kaplan handbook and intend to register as a student with ICB and order some past papers for Level 1 and 2 and the Diploma in Payroll exam. I think if the Level 1 is not too hard I should probably be able to get myself through this and then if I need to I could look for a course for Level 2. I will look at the Payroll one to see if I have enough past knowledge for this as I used to work in the Inland Revenue before going into a practise environ ment so I may just need to gen up on the different benefits over the last 8 years and get used to a computerised system for this exam.
Thanks once again for taking the time to offer me advice and saving me rushing in and spending a lot of money on a course which I may find I don't need to do or at least saving me some if I decide to use them for the later Levels. I really appreciate all your help and rather than going over and over it in my mind not deciding anything it has helped me to make a decision and get on with it. I just have to do all the hard work now and hope the enthusiasm doesn't wane when things become a bit difficult! At least it is nice to have this forum to turn to with great suggestions from people who have gone through it before so you dont' feel like you're on your own and they can understand your questions.
Thanks Alison for this reply about Payroll. I assume you didn't feel the need to get any specific books if you had the experience from before?
What computer software would I need to purchase to be able to run the exam and are you able to practise on it? Is it the Sage 50 Payroll?
Also did you do the ICB's Diploma in Payroll and did you find this sufficient as there is also a Payroll Institute I think with other payroll exams but a Financial agency I spoke to today seemed to think this was more if you intended to specialise only in Payroll and probably for large industries.
With computer software for payroll they don't specify which one so best to use one you know well.
I did the ICB's Diploma in payroll and this was sufficient for my needs, but if you were going to be specialising in payroll then possibly would need to go to a slighly higher level.
Thanks again for your help. I only want to be able to do Payroll alongside Bookkeeping so if I did set up on my own I should think any businesses I dealt with would only have a very few employees so I think the ICB's Diploma in Payroll should be enough for my needs if you have found it suitable with your bookkeeping business.
Thanks for replying to my post. I believe I have spoken to you not too long ago when I asked if there were any grants towards studying and you suggested speaking to my local Careers Office and Job Centre etc as you explained any help is often very localised.
I did get in touch with them and several others including following up a White Paper article by the government in January which was suggesting a £500 grant to mothers/fathers who had been out of work for I think it was 5 years or more to bring up children. Of course it was like trying to get blood from a stone to find any further information about it and locally no one seemed to have heard of it. I eventually found out they are piloting it in only the South East of the country - lucky them and why are they so special one has to ask! They don't envisage it being available to the rest of us have paid our taxes whilst we were working and have spouses who still do until about July 2010! Very useful to help the economy get going again I don't think! Someone did manage to say they may look at trying to bring it forward a bit because of the current difficult economic climate at the moment. Well whoopee!!!!!!!
Why they have to pilot it I really don't know. I shouldn't have thought it was too difficult to award the grant and put a system in place to check people are using it to study. They must already have systems in place for all the other grants they give out.
Anyway enough of my ranting, I decided as I could not find any funding to help me that I would try to have a go on my own and have registered with the ICB and am using their recommended book to study for Level 1 and Level 2 in bookkeeping and another book for computerised Payroll and have got a Sage Financial Package which has computerised Accounts and Payroll. I have come from a background in Personal Tax and have done a few small self-employed and rental accounts and small payrolls in the past so will see how I get on.
If I struggle or decide I do need professional help I will certainly be in touch with you again as I felt you were the distance learning centre that I would want to study with if any having looked at a few.
Many apologies for the private message. I'v only recently stumbled accross this site and thought I'd quickly drafty a reply.
I'm so sorry to hear of your woes in your search for funding. I could not agree more that there should a uniformed funding scheme for further learning. It can be so frustrating when others can take advantage of these schemes, and you are left out simply because you do not stay in the correct area.
I am glad to hear that you have taken some steps with your study and, of course, would be delighted to help you with any future ICB study.
That's no problem about the private message. As I'm not very experienced on how these forums work I just wasn't sure you would see that I had replied to you when the reply came up linked to the original point I had raised.
I am hoping to be able to get on with my studying now my daughter has gone back to school after her Easter holidays and will see how I go from there.
